• Truth About Inclusion 05/14/2018  1:44pm

    I've been a casting director for nearly 20 years. As far as the totem pole of contracts goes, the lowest I've ever gone is LORT theatre. I've been wanting to get something off my chest for a long time, and I'm very open to hearing other people's opinions about this subject. I've never publicly stated this for fear of losing my career for speaking my mind.

    The truth is that most people like me and the other members of artistic teams really want to have equal representation in casting when it comes to race. When I am able to look at a table full of headshots after casting decisions are made and I see equal numbers of Black, Latinx, Asian and White actors in front of me, I feel relieved because we've done well with equal representation, but I often feel sick because we've often passed on really talented people in order to make that happen.

    The truth is that when this table of headshots is mostly white, it does not have anything to do with the fact that either the artistic team or I have done our best to try to not have that happen. It's because there were simply not enough POC interested in the project.

    My casting pool comes largely from 3 resources. There are the submissions I receive from agents from posting a breakdown for a specific project, the actors who submit themselves for that specific project, and actors who I have on file from either having worked with them or kept from a random submission, because I liked their resume. When it comes to a project where race is not specific and it is stated in the casting notice that we are seeking a multi racial cast, out of the actors who are submitted by either their agent or themselves, there are usually only 5% or less who are not white.

    I know that less than 5% sounds low and is probably hard to swallow, but it's true. I generally receive anywhere from 250-300 submissions per role for shows that I cast. Most of the time, I'm receiving less than 15 actors per role who are POC. Considering that I accept random submissions for all my projects, what percentage of those 15 people do you think are actually qualified to audition for that role? Half would be accurate, and they are not always available to audition even though they submitted. The bottom line is that I'm going out of my way to put POC in the room and the small number of those POC who come into the room don't always deliver or are a good fit for the role. When callbacks are finished and decisions are to be made, we are pulling the hair out of our heads trying to figure out how to be inclusive. We are often turning away talented people because they are white and instead hiring less talented people for optics. There are some directors I work with who are so insistent upon showing equal representation that they will hire less talented people because they are not white, but there are also many who will hire the best actor for the job.

    Every year I receive paperwork which includes having to fill out a section giving statistics about how many of each race I hired in the past year, yet they never ask me for statistics about how many of each race were submitted throughout the year. No one ever brings up the reality of the situation which is that options are limited, and we are doing our best.

    TenderMercies

    If there is any way to make a POC who is cast in a project doubt their talent, this is how.

    ElectricJesus 05/14/2018  1:54pm

    Yikes. This is offensive

    singinggamer 05/14/2018  1:59pm

    "not enough POC interested" - I call bluff. HAHAHAHAHAAHAHHA It's actually quite laughable.

    For some reason I feel this is like an actor troll posing as a "casting director" so they can project their insecurities, and the points they are presenting can be viewed as credible...

    ElectricJesus 05/14/2018  2:05pm

    BLESS YOU. As a former monitor, I've said more or less the same. I'm NOT saying that non whites just have to show up to audition for this problem to be fixed, it's only one part of a HUGE puzzle...but when I as a monitor saw 95% white show up at big calls of any kind...there's SO MUCH to this puzzle that people don't see, and when I finally saw this small piece myself, it was eye opening. There are indeed people like yourself who understand the issue as a whole and are conciously pushing for diversity but the inner workings in that big whole picture aren't allowing for it. You can't actually implement it when diversity isn't in front of you. There's also multiple reasons for that also.
    I'll never forget Joy D posting about how when she still needed a few men for the Rent tour back when and she said that this particular day, she opened her portal to whatever she uses for submissions that she gets from agents submitting their clients and she said every.single.one was white. Granted those of us on our side of the table will never know how many POC these agents have/if they're qualified or right for it, we just don't know. So then what? And NO ONE wants diversity more than Joy, and I'm glad more and more CD's are seeing this and stepping up but CD's are only one cog in the big clock that is this issue.

    Showbizdreamer 05/14/2018  2:09pm

    I don't understand why this is "offensive." This is an industry professional respectfully expressing a very real concern based on numbers. It sounds like he/she is determined to rectify the situation, or else why would they speak up?

    They aren't saying that POC is less talented in any way than white people. Just that there are far more white people to choose from than POC due to who is being submitted, so of course there is going to be a wider spectrum of talent among the white actors in the room, due to numbers.

    What they -want- is wider spectrum of POC to choose from so that they can make projects the best they can be. That's a valid issue!

    ThanksForNoticingME 05/14/2018  2:21pm

    You cannot find STATS offensive. Go into a casting office. Intern. Read. Do something.

    But snap out of this crazy delusion that ULTRA LIBERAL CASTING DIRECTORS ARE OUT TO GET YOU.

    stuygal 05/14/2018  2:34pm

    "We are often turning away talented people because they are white and instead hiring less talented people for optics"

    which undermines the performance of the person of color...

    I've fought and have been cast in traditionally white roles. And to hear that it's only because I am a person of color is probably the worst thing you could say. (which has happened before)

    ElectricJesus 05/14/2018  3:20pm

    Thank you for posting this. You are SO right. People really have no concept of what it's like until they're on both sides of the table.

    StayHungry 05/14/2018  3:25pm

    Thank you for speaking an unpopular truth.
    Forcing a ratio of diversity that doesn’t exist in America makes for a cast list that soothes white guilt. It doesn’t get the best people onstage.
    I’d love to see a black Eva Peron if she sings it best. Latinos and Argentinians can be black, I promise you. And if anyone ever hands me a mirror after an Evita callback i promise you i will make them cry. Stop trying to police other actors and focus on your art.

    Juror #8 05/14/2018  3:43pm

    two words. inclusion rider.

    stuygal 05/14/2018  3:44pm

    this is where i'm gong to go out on a limb and say its not about you, jesus. this is about a numbers game. submissions, the actual number of poc applying to a role. these are facts.

    an inclusion rider isn't a bad thing. the number of poc's hired is recorded and reported. its why a breakdown will specify that they are actively seeking a poc. nobody is undermining your experience or talent.

    and this might blow your mind, but every actor fights for a role.

    stuygal 05/14/2018  3:52pm

    Yes! Yes! Yes!

    We need to stop fostering a community that celebrates mediocrity simply because they show up. The solution is education young talented POC about the arts and the ability to pursue a career there!!! Yes, that will mean that people who are working now might not get cast anymore... but welcome to the real world. The rest of us have to face that uncomfortable thought that we just might not be good enough. It’s time to level the playing field.

    Mr. Noodles 05/14/2018  4:17pm
    manohman 05/14/2018  4:35pm

    Casting has to stop blaming the fact that they don't know capable artists that are POC on the artists themselves. Its your job to know them. You have much more autonomy than actors do. So use it! Make equity a priority and not an afterthought and you wouldn't be in the position you're describing OP. Get out there, see people's work. Stop resting of platitudes.

    thisisforit 05/14/2018  6:20pm

    Alright, y’all. I’m gonna try and keep a level head about this. It may come off bluntly, so please don’t come at with “why are you attacking me?!” when I’m just trying to understand and offer perspective.

    You likely didn’t mean it this way, but you have to know that when you say things like “I often feel sick because we’ve passed on really talented people in order to make that happen,” “we are often turning away talented people because they are white and instead hiring less talented people for optics,” and “options are limited and we are doing our best,” the implication is that you are solely casting POC talent because they are POC and that POC talent is not as good as white talent. Again, I’m sure you did not mean it this way, but as the industry pushes for more diversity, POC artists are hearing this CONSTANTLY and from our side, it feels like we should feel guilty for getting *slightly* more opportunities than we have in the past and be falling to our knees thanking the powers that be for even considering us.

    Here’s the thing—I have auditioned for more productions than I can count that say “we strongly encourage POC talent to audition” or “seeking POC talent” in the breakdowns only to see a cast of predominately white faces when the press release comes out months later, and I know I’m not alone. Do we need to show up for these auditions? 100%. But do we need CDs and producers to actually stand by their statements and walk the walk? Yes.

    Here’s my question to you—how much POC talent do you find from your 3 sources? If you’re not pulling in big numbers, as seems to be case, are there other places you could look (I’m not trying to be glib, I’m genuinely asking)? Are there POC artist communities or people involved with those communities you can reach out to to encourage people to audition?

    Here’s the other thing—I’ve been in and seen so many productions where white actors were woefully miscast and/or definitely not the best actor for the job. And before someone jumps down my throat, no, I am not saying only white actors are guilty of this. My point is that it happens to everyone and frankly isn’t anything new, despite the best efforts of CDs, directors and producers.

    I guess what I’m trying to say is that we’re doing our best here too and that we are nowhere CLOSE to a level playing field. Things are getting better, for sure, but we still have a lot of work to do. Things aren’t going to be perfect and a lot of mistakes will be made, but the only way we get to equal representation is from the continued concerted, active efforts from everyone.

    CJCregg 05/14/2018  7:13pm

    I don't know about this piece. I think if you are a legit POC actor, you're going to make yourself available either by self-submit, agent, and I forget the 3rd one. But your are going to put yourself out there.

    whattheheck 05/14/2018  7:26pm

    This post made me curious, so I searched to see if Equity had data about racial/ethnic membership. They do. The link is below where I got the info.

    "For example, we have learned that nationally over the course of 2013 to 2015, most principal contracts went to Caucasian members, accounting for 71 percent. Asian Americans: barely 2 percent. African Americans: 7.56 percent. As you’ll read on the following pages, these numbers are consistent with other contracts and opportunities offered to our members."

    Then consider the data for all Equity members' ethnicity:

    African American 7.5%
    American Indian <0.1%
    Asian 2.2%
    Caucasian 68%
    Hispanic or Latino 2.5%
    Pacific Islander 0.2%
    Two or More Races 3.6%
    Not Provided 16%

    Consider the numbers. According to the data, there are fewer POC than Caucasians that have the opportunity to audition because the numbers just aren't there. I'm sure non-equity numbers look similar.

    www.actorsequity.org

    redshoes5678 05/14/2018  7:29pm

    Holy cow, what a CROCK. I'm a CD in a major market myself and disagree with every word of this. May you choke on the crow you so desperately deserve to swallow. You're just not doing the work, which makes you either lazy, unresourceful, uncreative, inherently biased (which your post amply demonstrates, repeatedly) or a delightful combination of all four. Bravo, you have succeeded in making on point only: that you yourself are the unqualified one.

    Tu Sabes 05/14/2018  7:59pm

    How about you stop calling in the same 3 Black/Asian/Latin actors you use for every show and go out on a limb and call someone new in. I personally have showed up/submitted for shows that dont specify race or encourage POC to come out and end up losing out to someone white or dont even get called in. So I call BS on this post...or maybe your casting office isn’t big enough to draw in/find the right actors. I dont see Telsey or Tara Rubin having a problem finding actors of color. So maybe you need to find the right connections or actually pay attention at EPA’s.

    SteppinToTheBadSide 05/14/2018  8:05pm

    Listen, this is an example of why you're not getting enough POC actors in the room. Because you and other people keep posting offensive things like this all over the damn internet and it makes us feel unsafe and uninvited.



    How about, instead, you WELCOME us to the room. I'm not saying we need to be coddled, but I hope you are well aware of US History, and realize that we don't always feel "included". So posts like THIS don't need to be the way we move forward. Posts like I WANT TO CAST MORE DIVERSE ACTORS AND I'M TEARING MY HAIR OUT BECAUSE I DON'T FEEL LIKE I AM INCLUDING THEM IN MY PROCESS. PLEASE POC ACTORS ATTEND MY AUDITION.


    When approx. 70% of actors (under AEA) are white, you have to understand what is going on here.

    And if the talent isn't REMARKABLE like the white people you turned down, remember some of the most iconic performers in American Musical Theatre like Carol Channing, Bernadette Peters, Liza Minelli, etc. who don't have the most gorgeous crystal clear sound yet had outstanding careers.

    Listen to me. I. Am. Uncomfortable. Going. To. Calls. That. Do. Not. Specify. The. Wanting. Of. P. O. C.

    So when you see the waiting room 95% white, know that it's because the POC actors do not feel welcomed. I wish you could see the waiting room of a POC conscious call. It's vibrant, positive, happy, and brave. It's uplifting. Because someone has invited us to their party.



    My point is exactly that. Invite us to the fucking party. Then we'll come. Then we'll get work. Then the younger kids will see us on billboards. Those younger kids will study theatre and fall in love with it and get their BFA or what have you somewhere and move to NYC. And you'll have a larger pool of diverse actors to choose from. Black. Latinx. Asian. Middle Eastern. Islander. Mixed. But NOW is where we START.

    colormearab 05/14/2018  8:10pm

    Alright, y’all. I’m gonna try and keep a level head about this. It may come off bluntly, so please don’t come at with “why are you attacking me?!” when I’m just trying to understand and offer perspective.

    You likely didn’t mean it this way, but you have to know that when you say things like “I often feel sick because we’ve passed on really talented people in order to make that happen,” “we are often turning away talented people because they are white and instead hiring less talented people for optics,” and “options are limited and we are doing our best,” the implication is that you are solely casting POC talent because they are POC and that POC talent is not as good as white talent. Again, I’m sure you did not mean it this way, but as the industry pushes for more diversity, POC artists are hearing this CONSTANTLY and from our side, it feels like we should feel guilty for getting *slightly* more opportunities than we have in the past and be falling to our knees thanking the powers that be for even considering us.

    Here’s the thing—I have auditioned for more productions than I can count that say “we strongly encourage POC talent to audition” or “seeking POC talent” in the breakdowns only to see a cast of predominately white faces when the press release comes out months later, and I know I’m not alone. Do we need to show up for these auditions? 100%. But do we need CDs and producers to actually stand by their statements and walk the walk? Yes.

    Here’s my question to you—how much POC talent do you find from your 3 sources? If you’re not pulling in big numbers, as seems to be case, are there other places you could look (I’m not trying to be glib, I’m genuinely asking)? Are there POC artist communities or people involved with those communities you can reach out to to encourage people to audition?

    Here’s the other thing—I’ve been in and seen so many productions where white actors were woefully miscast and/or definitely not the best actor for the job. And before someone jumps down my throat, no, I am not saying only white actors are guilty of this. My point is that it happens to everyone and frankly isn’t anything new, despite the best efforts of CDs, directors and producers.

    I guess what I’m trying to say is that we’re doing our best here too and that we are nowhere CLOSE to a level playing field. Things are getting better, for sure, but we still have a lot of work to do. Things aren’t going to be perfect and a lot of mistakes will be made, but the only way we get to equal representation is from the continued concerted, active efforts from everyone.

    CJCregg 05/14/2018  8:11pm

    Redshoes,

    I understand your point that there are way fewer AEA members of color than there are white ones. This of course leads to fewer people of color available to even come in for auditions.

    But I think there is more to that story, because AEA is a closed union. Generally, people work their way into it. So fewer people of color could also be proof of scarcer opportunities for poc to even qualify to join. In other words, instead of saying "There are only x hundred poc in AEA in the first place", I think we need to remember that it's often harder for poc to join in the first place. If they can't get their points, they'll never make it in. (Oversimplified, but you know what I mean.)

    It's not every day that I agree with Juror #8, and I hope he's here to see this red letter day, but the day someone gives me a mirror in a callback is the day they will need that mirror themselves to see the light of day from the place where it will be shoved.

    05/14/2018  8:35pm

    ^^Good point: "So fewer people of color could also be proof of scarcer opportunities for poc to even qualify to join."

    redshoes5678 05/14/2018  10:52pm

    ,I feel relieved because we've done well with equal representation, but I often feel sick because we've often passed on really talented people in order to make that happen.


    Wtf... so poc aren’t talented... we aren’t worth taking a spot from a white actor! They deserve the spots first???

    Now that makes me feel empowered to submit for auditions!

    Moremoneyplease 05/14/2018  11:07pm

    We need to find out who the CD is in the first most. I have my suppositions already. That’s why his biz is never growing.

    Gagainsider 05/14/2018  11:14pm

    gagainsider, it could be about ten different casting directors if you bothered to form relationships with any of them.

    whats being said is real. none of those cds are going to say it in public and i totally understand why. as seen on this thread, actors flip their shit when confronted with any kind of truth that doesn't fit their narrative.

    stuygal 05/15/2018  12:00am

    For someone who claims to have 20 years of experience in the industry, you should also know by now that "talent," and how it pertains to art, is entirely subjective. Essentially when you say, "less talented," you are merely projecting your own bias as you most likely do not find the person telling the story relatable.

    If you are afraid to "lose your career" over your opinion, I caution that you should probably be most afraid to lose your career for becoming outdated and obsolete. People of color will soon make up the majority. Maybe you should consider more innovative ways of finding talent that represents the world we currently live in instead of constantly fishing in the same small pool that is a byproduct of preserving the archaic status quo?

    SpaceCadet 05/15/2018  12:17am

    @stuygal What exactly is this “truth that doesn’t fit our narrative?”

    CJCregg 05/15/2018  1:41am

    Anyone who saw Kyle Scattlife’s embarrassing run as Enjolras in Les Miserables knows very well that when POC are concerned... the most talented person is not being cast. He cannot act at all. And due to this show we had to sit through him in the Color Purple and now Hamilton on tour.

    Enough is enough.

    Mr. Noodles 05/15/2018  1:48am

    Mr. Noodles, you might want to try using a different handle from time to time when trolling. At least, that's what I did when I was 13, but not everyone learns at the same pace.

    SpaceCadet 05/15/2018  2:04am

    @Mr. Noodles, I’m going to put aside your catty and shitty comment about Kyle Scatliffe for a moment and ask you this—how often does the “most talented actor” get the job? Truly? How many times have we all been told we often won’t get the job for reasons that have nothing to do with talent? This “issue” didn’t just suddenly appear with more diverse casting. It’s part of the business.

    CJCregg 05/15/2018  2:16am

    no no. mr. noodles isn't a troll. dude is for real.

    he's just a racist fuck who think that poc have it easy because of "government programs" and italians are the *actual* most underserved and underprivileged group in this country.

    manohman 05/15/2018  9:28am

    Y'all this is NOT offensive. Just because you do not particularly like the content or the facts at hand, does NOT make something offensive. These types of responses is why America cannot move forward and listen to each other. Open your minds and understand that just because all facts do not support a liberal utopia does not mean you have to go hide in a safe space and cry foul.

    krd2c 05/15/2018  10:00am

    It's not the content/facts that people find offensive as much as the way it's being framed. I agree that the statistics make it *seem* like it's easier for POCs to get work, and yes, it is theoretically easier for an Asian person to book Miss Saigon than a white person to book Oklahoma, but that's not the issue. The issue is that that same Asian person isn't being seriously considered for Oklahoma, and when they are, it's because the creative team "needs more color" and not because they genuinely deserve it.
    That said, I can totally see where the OP is coming from- I was once in a show where the director wanted to (temporarily) replace a white actor with a POC and worded the breakdown to encourage non-white actors to submit. None did. The solution, however, is to be more proactive about finding said POCs. The project I did was low-level and non-eq so the director didn't have many resources, but the OP does.

    bwaylvsong 05/15/2018  11:46am

    And, yes, I agree with Juror as well. Fairness in casting is relative, and if the actor genuinely believes that the project is their "story to tell," I don't have a problem with that. For example, my White Jewish ass would never audition for Evita, but I would sure as hell audition for Prince of Egypt, and anyone who hands me a mirror at a PoE call would get it shoved back at them.

    bwaylvsong 05/15/2018  11:52am

    What IS offensive is y’all are saying basically that WHITE ppl are entitled to all roles and if they want to cast POC then that’s taking away from you. That is offensive. White is not and shouldn’t be the default.

    Moremoneyplease 05/15/2018  12:05pm

    Or you could just cast based off of talent and completely ignore race. Black pink white yellow brown blue... whoever is the best...

    sugarmagnolia 05/15/2018  12:40pm

    NBC casting just found 80.... 80!!! legit LATINX performers for their upfronts Monday. Someone is not looking hard enough? Work harder! NYC residents are white, 26 percent are Hispanic, 26 percent are black, and 13 percent are Asian.... those who seek shall find. Invite them in and reach out.

    Really? 05/15/2018  12:55pm

    Affirmative Action and other policies that favor lesser qualified candidates solely to fill racial quotas don’t work. Anyone who benefits from this program will never be truly appreciated for respected for their accomplishments... because these programs ensure that someone more qualified was passed over. That is the entire purpose of these programs and it is flawed.

    The time and resources that are spent fulfilling these policies would be better spent educating young POC in poverty and fighting racist hiring practices. Not forcing quotas of unqualified candidates.

    All these programs do is race bait and put poor groups of people who have more in common that the powers that be want them to know against each other. You’re never going to convince poor whites living in shacks and trailer parks in Appalachia that poor blacks, Latinos, etc... are more deserving than they are. It’s never going to happen. And continuing to do this is how Trump got elected.

    Mr. Noodles 05/15/2018  1:17pm

    Honestly, if you receive so little submissions of POC you should rethink your means of accepting submissions. Do more open calls. Reach out to colleges. Use about the artist more efficiently. Look at Binder. They have to supply a plethora of young black actors to creatives every year so they do open calls in cities if they can't find what they're looking for. I've worked in casting and talent representation, and "POC just didn't submit themselves" isn't good enough. If teams want inclusion/diversity and authenticity on stage they should be willing to compensate a casting director more money to do their job diligently. Because agents or actors didn't submit themselves on breakdowns is just a weak argument. Theres so many means of talent outreach now.

    Fatniss_Neverlean 05/15/2018  1:27pm

    p.s- I just read the OP because I knew the comments would make me want to die. spoiler: I was right

    Fatniss_Neverlean 05/15/2018  1:28pm

    THERE'S noodles with the brilliant logic again.

    yup. it's poc and affirmative action that got trump elected. yup. that's EXACTLY what's to blame.

    poc are responsible for "baiting" everyone into voting for trump, you guys. thanks to noodles, i get it now.

    thanks, noodles for your insightful socio economic and political analyses.

    you must be a professor.

    manohman 05/15/2018  1:35pm

    Fatniss - all the POC in the NY market are repped, always working/booked, or actively submitting themselves. there is a demographic problem at play here that we cannot pretend doesn't exist. but yes, casting should travel to other markets when appropriate.

    castinginsecret 05/15/2018  1:43pm

    Just like every post about you entitled, whiny, ass actors who aren't working, you all need new friends to discuss this with. This is dumb. Its hard. This business is hard. Being an actor is hard. POCs are not the reason you're not working.

    We do show up to calls and We do we submit. I hustle my ass off and still don't get called in for submissions and I don't have representation, so you better believe I'm at those EPAs. Will we be at every call? No. We won't be attending Long Day's Journey into Night, We won't be attending the description that says "All American boy with leather jacket and slicked back hair...all ethnicities". We also may not be there if we know a particular casting director doesn't bring in POCs. But don't act like we're not showing up.
    With the amount of Mamma Mia productions being done this season, you guys should have plenty of options.

    I really hate the anonymity of this sometimes.

    Actor12129 05/15/2018  6:56pm

    Eh. I kind of see what they're saying, but I also understand all the comments. But, whereas it makes sense for someone like Binder to go to Chicago/LA/Seattle and do open calls, why would a casting team in NYC go to those cities to hold open calls to find more POC for like, say, Oklahoma?

    I was in for a show today, and there were maybe 50 men there, and maybe 2 POC. The show didn't specify, and race isn't an issue in the show. So, I can see what the OP is saying. If they don't show up, how can you cast them? But I do see the flip side of LOOKING for them, but I do think it's a give and take. Take more risks, go in for more things that maybe aren't in your wheelhouse, etc.

    As to the "talent" thing, I think what the OP was trying to say was that if 100 white people show up, and 25 of them are talented, but only 10 POC show up and not one of them is really right for the show, should they pick the "not so great" person over the white person only to have inclusion. Which, again, I see both sides of that. But I, for one, think talent should prevail.

    I look at a show like Frozen and the guy playing Kristoff is killing it. He's awesome, and likely, and I can see why they went with him.

    Aktin 05/16/2018  12:59am

    To the original poster- you are a sad excuse for a CD and I hope to never had or have to audition for you. Please work harder and do better. There are people are there looking for who are either not represented, not in the union or lacking the resources or information to get to people like you.


    And to all the people who are agreeing saying that it’s just about the “numbers”, please know that just because the maket is over saturated with white performers does not automatically make them the default for representation. Which is what this situation has been for a long time and which is a reason as to why casting directors and creative teams to need to put in work in towards inclusion and letting actors of color know that these roles are stories available for then to tell.


    Just thinking about the fact the wr need to jse the word “inclusion” makes it sound that we were never a part of this in the forst place. And I know that white people are not the only ones who can tell a story

    missionmission 05/16/2018  7:22am

    I think you're missing their point...

    Aktin 05/16/2018  11:17am

    We have to be able to listen other perspectives. You cant just dismiss everything as "offensive." I give this poster credit for sharing their thoughts and experience. It is vital for us to understand how this process works if we want to work in this industry, regardless of race, sex, age, etc.

    glittervortex 05/16/2018  12:02pm

    Wait, if 7.56% of principal contracts went to African-Americans and 7% of Equity is African-American...then ya'll are 100% BOOKED AND BLESSED!!
    The melanin envy is real.

    carrieunderwire 05/16/2018  12:46pm

    Hmmm....wow...this is a LOT to process.
    I don't think you mean this but your words are truly hurtful and take away from the POC actors who are truly talented and get passed up due to issues of racism often. I am one of those actors and I don't think I've ever been hired off of my ethnicity alone - pretty much everything on my resume has been hard fought - often having to go above and beyond what is expected of my white counterparts to prove I belong.
    I think calling you a racist is a bit simplistic because I'm sure your heart is in the right place but maybe you need to think about this problem differently. If whiteness has been the default for a long time, and white performers from an early age in their training before they even step foot on a professional stage are given opportunities to grow, learn, and become better and more seasoned that automatically puts them in an advantageous position ahead of their POC counterparts. I know in conservatory that several POC members of my class were not cast simply because they were not white, so when you make rash generalizations like this you are ignoring a much, much bigger problem of systemic oppression that goes all the way back to even our differences in education through no fault of our own. Your post was deeply hurtful. I hope you think about this critically and try harder to find talented and worthy POC if you're having such a tough time. Trust and believe we are out there - some of us are non-union because we get seen a lot less since white has been the default, some of us don't show up because we know certain casting directors will not take a chance on brown people. My wish is that you open your mind.

    divadinnah101 05/16/2018  1:42pm

    Ok but........ can we not agree that the VAST majority of people at any open call or EPA/ECC are white? Like the majority of auditoners are absolutely white. Saying that there are equal amounts of POC auditioning at any given audition is simply false. Duh I'm all for inclusion but let's not lie to ourselves

    orangefanta 05/16/2018  4:34pm

    People need to show up and audition/submit/etc to get cast. You can't expect CDs to go hunting across the country for you, show up if you wanna be cast

    orangefanta 05/16/2018  4:36pm

    Wow... so I thought that Project Am I Right’s mirror thing was a joke. Not only is it one of the most offensive things I’ve ever heard... in pretty sure it’s illegal. A job CANNOT ask what your race is nor can they deny employment because of it. You can literally say that you’re whatever race you want and they CANNOT legally question it. I’m pretty sure that interfering with a job interview and face baiting like this is against the law.

    Anyway, that’s why I didn’t believe it was real... but I’m sitting here at the Tick Tock with a group of friends and have been assured that it’s very real...

    Wow... Project Am I Right, how’d you like someone to bring along an ICE agent to check everyone’s papers right before going into the room at the next Heights call???? It’s no different!!!

    Mind your own business!!!

    Mr. Noodles 05/17/2018  9:41am
    SteveRogers. 05/17/2018  11:19am

    You're 100% right about one thing, Mr. Noodles:

    Legally, in any kind of job interview, no one can ask you about your age, sex, gender expression, ethnic or racial background. It’s literally against the law. Correct.

    And yes, as you say "You can literally say that you’re whatever race you want and they CANNOT legally question it." Likewise, it's perfectly legal to lie in a job interview about your qualifications. That doesn't make it a good idea. And if a casting director hires you on good faith and finds out after the fact that you lied and now have made *them* look bad, I don't think they're probably going to want to trust you in the future. So, in general, I think the best advice is to be 100% honest in any job interview of any kind.

    To be clear, we are never *in* job interviews of any kind. We are not employers asking potential employees anything at all.

    A third party handing out cards or fliers or any other material after you leave a job interview is *very* different than a potential employer asking you questions about your background in said job interview.

    And, AGAIN, we never ask anyone about their background. Our cards ask no questions. Our cards are simply mirrors and a web address. That is all that is printed on them.The only thing that asks is for you to reflect on your own.

    So, back to the law. It’s a federal law. Do you know why that law exists or when it was enacted?

    Title VII of The Civil Rights Act of 1964 makes it illegal for employers to discriminate based on race, color, age, sex, or national origin. The other components of this revolutionary piece of legislation desegregated institutions of all kinds here in the US of A and guaranteed equal voting rights to all people (among other important things).

    So yes, the letter of this law is that nobody has to disclose anything about their background in any kind of job interview. But what do you think the spirit of this law was intended to do? It seems that it was intended to ensure that members of underrepresented groups not usually given equal opportunities would be guaranteed a chance. Right?

    So, do you think this law was intended to provide plausible deniability for white actors to portray characters of color? For cis actors to play trans characters? Or was this law intended to provide more opportunities for employment to people from underrepresented groups in all fields?

    Just consider that this law was intended to level the playing field before you use it to shield yourself from responsibility. Consider how leaders of the Civil Rights Movement would feel to know that actors use the laws they fought for as carte blanche to knowingly take job opportunities from underrepresented groups. People fought and died to pass this landmark protective legislation. How will you honor the work they did for equality?

    Thanks.

    ProjectAmIRight 05/17/2018  12:08pm

    project - it is absolutely outrageous that you disrupt people's auditions in this way. it doesn't matter if it's inside or outside the room

    fuzzletwit 05/17/2018  12:38pm

    Sorry for the confusion.

    AGAIN, not interfering with anything. Handing out flyers or cards or anything else *after* an audition cannot interfere with said audition since the audition is already over.

    Thanks.

    ProjectAmIRight 05/17/2018  12:43pm

    Project Am I Right - is there a facebook group for underrepresented actors? I am a member of some groups for film/tv actors where we network/keep posted on job opportunities, etc. If something like this exists for minority actor groups, it might be useful to hand that information out both to folks at auditions AND the people conducting the audition. This CD claims he can't find people (although it seems to me a simple backstage database search would reveal plenty), directing him to an easy resource where talent and casting can connect might be useful.

    emuhe 05/17/2018  1:21pm

    noodles

    thanks for the heads up that tick tock is now and ICE checkpoint and/or alt-right base camp or something.

    now i now to avoid that place.

    i wonder if they know what kind of people are patronizing their establishment ...

    maybe i'll let them know.

    manohman 05/17/2018  1:40pm

    I don’t want to put words in anyone mouth, but here’s something to just consider. I could be wrong, but I think part of the problem is that maybe we are used to seeing things one way- certain leading roles, love interests, whatevers and the way is generally white. So when we see that POC in a role you are used to seeing as white, or even a new work where you’d subconsciously *expect* to see the character played by someone white but instead it’s a POC, something doesn’t feel “quite right” about it. And suddenly the white people that were in for the role just seem to “fit” more or have that “something special”. So when we try something new and cast the POC it feels like you passed over the “perfect” talent for it. But I think the reality might be, we just aren’t used to seeing POC in certain roles and certain lights. And we have to normalize it so that people get used to it and change their perspective. Once there are more POC in leading roles, more young POC will be encouraged to pursue their dreams and eventually it will all even out. If nothing changes, nothing changes, ya know? 🤷🏻‍♀️ just my thoughts

    Okayokay 05/17/2018  1:56pm

    Project does indeed ask about race, just ask poor Evita from North Shore.

    It is so highly inappropriate that one actor would bother another about their race at an audition. It's even sadder that this project is running for a position with AEA.

    If you're non-eq, as your friends to tell you about the AEA FB thread where project came out and endorsed certain candidates over others for their interest in diversity. Never mind that (A) She didn't speak to everyone first to get their position and (B) She put herself forward and didn't disclose that she was the same as project.

    Ethics matter, especially from people who lecture others in ethics!

    05/17/2018  2:58pm

    "AGAIN, not interfering with anything. Handing out flyers or cards or anything else *after* an audition cannot interfere with said audition since the audition is already over."

    Yeah and if someone waited outside the auditions to attack us with a 2 x 4 an make us walk over a pit of vipers, it wouldn't hurt our auditions at all because we don't have to go through it until afterwards, right?

    Leave a stack of the damn cards and mirrors somewhere where people can take them if they're interested. Stop harassing people. If a person's ex waited outside auditions to try to get a word with them, we'd call that person a stalker.

    05/17/2018  3:39pm

    the thread where jen cody went ballistic and proved she's an unintelligent, out-of-touch, immature petty woman who does not belong in national leadership position?

    the thread that got deleted by an admin because it was clearly biased because no other endorsements have been attacked?

    THAT thread?

    is THAT the thread you want everyone to know about, jen?

    manohman 05/17/2018  3:41pm

    also, jen, did you and your old white people friends ask every single candidate if they wanted to join your giant unite2fite 90s netspeak nonsese slate?

    did you ask every single candidate?

    did you? or should we attack your endorsements, too?

    manohman 05/17/2018  3:47pm

    Project right seems like the type of ppl to show pictures of bloody fetuses to people *after* they leave the clinic

    sugarmagnolia 05/17/2018  3:51pm

    Ha, nope, that's not me.

    I know it comes as a major shock to you, but there is actually more than one person on the planet who does not worship at the altar of the project.

    More than one person in this thread, even.

    05/17/2018  3:57pm

    well you seem like these nice folks.

    allthatsinteresting.com

    manohman 05/17/2018  3:57pm

    Because we don't agree with what you and project spew? Yeah, everyone who disagrees with you must be filled with bigotry, huh? I made an argument on this very thread about difficulty that poc face, btw. But you were to busy ranting and insulting to recognize that some people would like to see a change, but disagree with methods of the project and people like you. You'd get further with your cause if you learned to separate "they disagree with me" from "they are bigots" but hey, the desire to educate yourself comes from within. I can't impose it on you. Maybe one day you'll be ready. Till then, keep up the spewing becuase it's been a fun read.

    05/17/2018  4:01pm

    cool. whatever. either way, jen's friend, *WAS* that the thread you were talking about?

    cuz if it is, fyi, it's not doing her any favors to bring that shit up.

    and yeah. plenty of people hate project. you're entitled to your opinion. but when you voice it the way you do, then we're also entitled know which side of history you stand on.

    when someone shows you who they are, believe them. and ya'll are showing us who you are LOUD and fucking clear.

    manohman 05/17/2018  4:02pm

    I am not friends with her, in fact I don't even know her.

    Read what I wrote in this thread (defending poc, cough) and last week in the other thread. I do not say anything about people, I comment on their behavior and methods.

    You, on the other hand, rant, scream, insult, accuse, and fly off the handle. It's an impediment to intelligent discussion.

    Also, I'm still not sure why I must be white because I think the project's behavior (and yours) is shameful. I'm sorry your world is so tiny that we must agree with people who look like us and can't agree with anyone who is different. You sound like part of the problem. Maybe you should take a long, hard look in a...post-audition promotional business card.

    05/17/2018  4:13pm

    no way to tell who you are or what comments are yours you fancy no-name no-character anonymous.

    oh well. guess we'll never know your real track record except that you love a crazy person who threw a fit for not getting picked for someone's kickball team, you continually defend the white people who self-tanned to the high heavens in north shore's evita, and for making your thoughts *very* clear on the nothing-but-well-meaning work of "project spew"

    but yeah, i'm the only one throwing insults. right.

    manohman 05/17/2018  4:18pm

    Nope, wrong again. Of course we know so much about you. Man O'Man, sounds Irish, I guess.

    This post of yours is exactly what I mean. I do not defend self-tanning for a role, why would you say I did? Oh I know, because I also do not support a public smear campaign against an actor who got a job that I wanted for myself. Also, Evita is such a stupid example of a racial problem in casting, since we all know the actual historical figure's background and appearance.

    I've already said what I do to support diversity in casting--and I've asked you but you only yell around insults. Do you recognize the way that you derail conversation? You don't help your cause.

    I don't care about kickball teams, and who said I love Jen? I don't even know her. You either don't read well or you just fly off the handle to your detriment. As I have actually already said, I don't think it's correct for a candidate to (unasked) endorse other candidates based on their position, unless they're going to talk to all candidates equally--and maybe not even then. And to do it under the guise of an organization but not disclose the personal connection: gross.

    Fighting for diversity: good!

    Screaming like a crazy person and insulting anyone who doesn't agree: duh.

    Attacking individual actors because you don't approve of their own choices, while saying you never do that: ugggggh.

    Seriously, Mr. O'Man, friendly advice: if you do honestly care about this cause, you do need to discuss it intelligently and not just scream and swear at anyone who is not 100% on board with each of your words. Who would take on this cause with crazy people running around acting so erratically all the time? Use positive role models from history as your guide, like MLK, Gandhi, and Mandela, instead of Real Housewives. Good luck with your transformation, I can't wait to support your well-thought out initiatives! Here's to diversity!

    05/17/2018  4:33pm

    "I do not defend self-tanning for a role, why would you say I did? Oh I know, because I also do not support a public smear campaign against an actor who got a job that I wanted for myself. Also, Evita is such a stupid example of a racial problem in casting, since we all know the actual historical figure's background and appearance."

    two quick things:

    um, yeah. we do. you're right. she was a natural brunette from south america. not too difficult to understand.

    and every time you bring up north shore evita you defend them or pity them. and they *did* use *crazy* self-tanning brownface. ergo, you are defending brownface.

    manohman 05/17/2018  4:36pm

    ...yep, with white European parents.

    I feel that the smear campaign against an individual actress was terrible. Especially since the project says she doesn't operate that way, but then goes and does.

    Just like last week, you'll throw anything you can think of at me. I support school segregation, I support self-tanning, I am Jen C, I am not Jen C but I am her friend, I am not Jen C or her friend but I love her, etc. You'd make an exhausting detective series. 42 minutes of new theories every week. The audience would be begging for more commercial breaks.

    Go out and do some good, manohman. It's easy to be a gnat in everyone's ear. Hold yourself to a higher standard.



    05/17/2018  4:45pm

    i never claimed to be a good standard. you do tho.

    you claim that you are completely morally superior to project. yet you won't put your name on the line.

    you claim that you are completely morally superior to project and yet when she offers in good faith to talk to you, you essentially told her to fuck off.

    i know i'm not superior. never said i was. but you sure seem to think you are.

    manohman 05/17/2018  5:07pm

    also, lol to everyone who suddenly becomes a fucking history professor and an ethnic studies scholar with special concentration on argentine people and how white they are. the lengths ya'll are willing to go to make sure latinx actors get no more than 2 shows that are specifically written for them. it's madness. like, you can't let them have 3 shows? 2 is already enough? 3 is too many? that's the hill you've decided to die on? to keep 1 stupid show an all-white-stravaganza forever? seriously?

    and, fyi, there are white latinx-people. you know that, right? latinx isn't a race. it's an ethnicity and a culture.

    manohman 05/17/2018  5:17pm

    Quick Clarification:

    When did Project every personally smear anyone involved in NSMT Evita?

    There was an open letter I remember. And a bunch of articles and stuff.

    But I'm trying to remember any individual getting attacked by Project and can't.

    I remember some people got some private messages from random bullies. Yeah. I remember that. But blaming Project for that is like when we ask American Imams to condemn any act of terrorism. whether you agree with them or not, that's just a little unfair to Project.

    MuchosMocos 05/17/2018  5:27pm

    Damn, manohman, get a grip! You're making accusations that have nothing to do with what's getting said! And hello, YOU'RE ANONYMOUS!

    No one said a damn thing about forgiving tanner-face. I don't know anything about the NSMT cast resorting to that and if they did that's awful, and that was nowhere in the controversy. The controversy went down as they were just starting rehearsal. No one's tanner was a part of it, no plan to apply tanner was known to anyone. People talking the ethics of "Project" calling Evita, asking if she was Latina, putting her on the spot, and going on the damn radio about casting choices -- all of that happened without a word about damn tanner.

    Yes, there are Latin white people. That's not a curve ball you're throwing -- it's the whole damn point! Eva Peron WAS one. So was Che. (Yet yeah, "Project" didn't call Che, she called the female lead. Hm. Interesting. A lead who does NOT necessarily present as white, playing a historical figure who was, in fact, 100% white.)

    No one said they're superior to anyone. People got challenged on their hypocrisy and their methods. That's that. You're ranting at people like mad. You don't get to say someone is being superior and has to hold themselves to a higher standard than you.

    I'm Latin. I'm not coming at this from the outside. I'm telling you, flying off the handle using every attack you think you can get away with, you're not doing ANYone any favors. You gotta debate with some standards.

    Ranger Rick 05/17/2018  6:06pm

    I think the OP was just saying, if 10 white actors auditions, and like 4 of them are great, but 3 POC actors auditions and they aren't great, they feel obligated to cast the POC actor because of inclusions instead of talent. Not to say, by any means, that POC are less talented, but we've all sat in the hallway at Pearl or Ripley and heard people who weren't great. Why should they get a leg up purely because of their color? On both sides of the spectrum. I think talent should prevail always.

    Smactor 05/18/2018  12:55am

    Bye

    Antonio95 05/19/2018  1:33am

    In my book project has disqualified herself for aea leadership with her misguided self righteous and divisive conduct

    dopplegang 05/19/2018  1:57pm

    oh my god! reading these comments make me want to vomit all over your faces.

    STOP. BEING. A. VICTIM.

    how about this? GET BETTER AT YOUR CRAFT. SHOW UP. This industry is UNFAIR. do you really think it's easier for white people? honest to god, do you really think that? It's fucking on trend to specifically cast NON-WHITE right now, so you literally have an edge OVER white people right now. but all kidding aside, stop bitching and whining about fairness. times have changed. the playing field is as equal as it possibly can be at this point, and it will never really be equal. you want to be mad at somebody? how about rich people? there the ones that TRULY have the advantage while we're all busting our asses at survival jobs they're spending all there mommy and daddys money on classes BECOMING BETTER ACTORS. again, less kidding, but guys, get the fuck out of victim mentality it's destroying your soul and if you think it's not showing when you audition, or literally just living your life, you are mistaken.

    be the best you. be the best actor you can be. be prepared. show up. thats all there is too. doesn't matter if you're black white brown green gay blue up down or a fucking Alien with 5 penises and 4 vaginas. be a good actor. and stop fucking bitching. be happy you have the chance to PURSUE your dreams.

    the end.

    peasandcues 05/19/2018  6:22pm