Bitching Post

It's ok to get it off your chest.

  • Leading Man Gripe 09/20/2016  10:16pm

    So I'm going to try and be as understanding and non-offensive as possible, but just a thought I had today while working out and listening to cast recordings, but for all the "body shaming" done by this business, I feel like it's a bit one sided. I mean, there are plenty of woman who aren't stick thing who have played Elphabas, Evitas, Grizabellas, etc. But leading men always seem to have to have the same look, the same hair, the same build, and yet guys don't seem to complain or whine or, heck, even care? I mean you don't see Nathan Lane playing the romantic lead. Thoughts?

    Tis I Muhahaha!

    Found Aktin...

    Really?! 09/20/2016  10:47pm

    He very famously played Nathan Detroit...

    SteveRogers 09/20/2016  11:42pm
    littleeagle 09/21/2016  12:02am

    AHHHHH obsessed with the name switch that has been tricking us all! ahahahahahahaha CAUGHT hahahaha

    ‡‡‡ 09/21/2016  12:43am
    SteveRogers 09/21/2016  9:33am

    If you don't feel like lifting weights there's plenty of us who want it enough that we will...
    Your daily reminder that women outnumber men 4 to 1 and their physical requirements require a bone saw.
    They just want us to be look like we can carry the female lead over the threshold and have a chest bigger than our waist.
    We get off easy.

    Juror #8 09/21/2016  10:46am

    ^^^^^ love this

    Wackawacka 09/21/2016  11:17am

    Forgive my bluntness, but suck it up buttercup.

    You chose to enter the most competitive industry in the world and now you're upset that you have to work your ass off?

    You want to complain about things you can't change like race or height, by all means, but coming on here to whine about having to put in the work required of your type?

    *mouth tightens. shakes head slowly

    Focus. Do the work. Be thankful you get to follow your dream.

    Or don't. Gain 50lbs and become a character actor. That is always an option.

    I'm sorry for being so harsh, but nothing rustles my jimmies quite like someone complaining about the work required to achieve their goals.

    Major Tom 09/21/2016  11:32am

    also I can't help but add that to imply that only women complain about body image issues WHILE you're complaining about body image issues is not only a tad hypocritical, but has misogynistic undertones...

    basicNAB 09/21/2016  11:38am

    So if I complain about body type it's somehow my fault for being lazy, but some girl gets passed over for her size and we are all suppose to rally and support? You guys are insanely hypocritical. There wasn't a trace if malice in my post. Just an argument I was contemplating and wanted to get your thoughts as to why this industry/world is so one sided on weight issues. But as per usual you all need to make it about yourselves.

    Tis I Muhahaha! 09/21/2016  1:42pm

    This has gone really well so far, I think.

    SteveRogers 09/21/2016  1:47pm

    For the record, I feel the same way, regardless of sex.

    Also, how many user names do you have? (I have four).

    Major Tom 09/21/2016  2:46pm

    Tis I, your exact words were: " I feel like it's a bit one sided. I mean, there are plenty of woman who aren't stick thing who have played Elphabas, Evitas, Grizabellas, etc. But leading men always seem to have to have the same look, the same hair, the same build, and yet guys don't seem to complain or whine or, heck, even care?"

    Your bitch was NOT expressed as "Why is this industry so focused on weight?" Your bitch was "Why are girls so whiny? Guys have it a lot worse!" Very, very different.

    actorsmom 09/21/2016  2:52pm

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    basicNAB 09/21/2016  2:55pm

    @actorsmom YES

    mathematical 09/21/2016  5:20pm

    That's fine. I think that's just the way you all took it and not at all how I intended it to come off. As per my first sentence, I wasn't trying to ruffle any feathers. Just simply asking why it seems it is so one sided as far as weight/body shape is concerned.

    Tis I Muhahaha! 09/21/2016  5:31pm

    As a very short guy who can never be a leading man, I feel you, but I disagree that the issue is one-sided. I feel like there are DIFFERENT variables at play for men and women, and that the needs for certain roles (especially for the female belters roles you noted) are more skill-oriented than type-oriented. That's why you'll see in "Wicked" for example, similar types consistently cast as Fiyero and Glinda, with a wider range of types for Elphaba.

    bwaylvsong 09/21/2016  6:19pm

    Thanks for that response. I guess saying one sided was a misstep, but even in the male "belter" roles - the parts where they want a beautiful voice over other talents - the ones that come to mind are more along the lines of Phantom/Les Miz and those are typically cast with a trim physique.

    And sure, Nathan Lane played Nathan Detroit, but he is not the romantic lead. He's the comedic counterpart.

    Tis I Muhahaha! 09/21/2016  10:28pm

    Do you think so? Tell that to Sinatra.

    I think the beauty of that show (and that part) is that it’s a romantic lead for a character actor (whatever that means). I’ve always found Nathan and Adelaide to be a leading romantic couple- just also hilarious. Usually, those parts and that type of relationship would be supporting- but they are the principals. Just interesting.

    Anyway, to your point- I agree with Tom. The business is the business- don’t expect them to change for you, if you want those parts, do what you must to become those parts. Some things just are.

    It’s funny you bring up Nathan Lane- who has played some of the most famous and brilliant parts written for the theatre, both in plays and musicals. He’s done Pseudolous and he also gave a brilliant Hickey in Iceman. He was Max Bialystock and he was Pompey in Joe Papp’s “Measure for Measure”.

    I’d rather 1/10th of Nathan Lane’s career than Valjean. But that’s just me

    SteveRogers 09/21/2016  10:45pm

    Okay, I understand what you're saying. I get that you were not intentionally being sexist, and I feel your frustration. That being said, I feel the need to explain to you where your error is.

    People who are considered "plus sized" or "not stick thin" to you are not the average female body type. There has never been an Elphaba over a size ten, as far as I am aware. Maybe even a size eight. Currently, the average size of the American woman is 16-18. (source: www.revelist.com That is almost twice the size of the largest woman who has placed the role of Elphaba on Broadway and beyond. I do not have stats for men and one of the reasons is because they are not easily accessed, which is because the pressure this society puts on women in regards to their bodies far outweighs the pressure that is put on men. This week, I lost nearly ten pounds because I was unable to eat due to a norovirus and I was terrified that people were going to tell me how healthy I look. Healthy, because I was throwing up and starving for five days. Now, pardon me, but that's pretty fucked up.

    I don't know about theatre specifically, but I do know that it is very difficult for a plus sized woman to be seen as a romantic lead in our culture. I watch The Mindy Project and I am incredibly inspired because Mindy Kaling is a size eight and she is the star of her own show. But, you'll notice that Jason Segel, Jack Black, Seth Rogan, Chris Pratt (pre-Guardians) have no problem being cast as "real characters" despite the "dad-bod" while beautiful women who are considered plus sized while being less than half the average American dress size like Jennifer Coolidge struggle to be cast in anything other than character roles.

    This is changing and I am extremely thankful, but, it doesn't take a long look to recognize that men with "non-traditional" beauty standard bodies have already broken this barrier. Our society is far more forgiving of male bodies than they are female. At the end of the day, men can look at a show and see themselves on stage 90% of the time and women cannot. As a 5'10" size 12 woman, I almost never see my body type represented on stage. In fact, I don't think I ever have.

    Try being taller than every man and fatter than every girl, taller and skinnier than every character actress, but unable to play the leading lady because you "just don't fit," unable to be put into an ensemble, unable to play your own age because you're taller than you "should" look in order to play 23, being told that you didn't get into college programs because you, "stand out."

    I'm not trying to make this a sob story, because I plan to change the game. Change is coming, and type is being thrown out the window more and more, thank God.

    Women have to jump through more hoops than men do in almost every instance. I'm working hard trying to get in shape only to be turned away because I'm still too tall and that's not anything I can help [short of a bone saw - thanks, Tom], but I'm never going to stop because this is what I want more than anything in the world.

    So while I get you objectively, and I feel and recognize your struggle, you're allowed to be upset for exactly as long as it takes you to read my message and not a second more because life is hard. This is the bitching post, so bitch. But you have to understand that you have it a lot easier than your female counterparts over here. You're allowed to be unhappy because you're human, but don't try to say that it's even harder for men. It simply is not.

    Reminder that just because someone has it worse does not mean that your struggle is invalid. But it is very important to recognize the privilege your point of view comes from.

    Bottom line: You're unhappy, do something about it.

    [btw: all of my points are specifically from a VERY WHITE perspective as well. Our friends of color have it even worse and I don't feel like I can accurately speak to their struggle, which is why I haven't.]

    ScreltersAnonymous 09/21/2016  11:17pm

    Also Grizabella is a fucking cat, in the show Cats, that does not dance or wear a skin-tight outfit without underwear lines (how do they do it. HOW.) Anybody with a body can play Grizabella. That's an unfair role to judge.

    ScreltersAnonymous 09/21/2016  11:29pm

    [[ALSO: insert obligatory "call me Ishmael" joke here]]

    ScreltersAnonymous 09/21/2016  11:32pm

    AMEN, Screlters.

    twerkingthrulyfe 09/22/2016  9:16am

    I agree with you a billion times over! Why Kevin James is a thing, I'll never understand. Or why, in this day and age, we still have [fat comedian] + [hot nagging wife] is beyond me. Or why, in School of Rock, the skinny "hot" principle goes for the chubby, lazy guy. Totally get that. My frustration just stemmed from my observation that so many leading man roles get cast bases on type and not talent. Recently saw a show on Broadway, the understudy was on. He looked the part. But his vocals were flat, and just plain off. And just thinking how he got the part and what he did in the room, since I can't even get in the room, ya know?

    And I'm not attaching Nathan Lane. No one is disrespecting his talent. I think he's bananas funny, and cannot wait to see The Front Page. But, he's still never played the romantic lead. Your opinion is yours, but he's not the romantic lead in Guys and Dolls. He's not falling in love. He's already got a girl.

    Tis I Muhahaha! 09/22/2016  11:10am

    The first part of your post completely negates what (I thought) you were trying to say.

    You made a post wondering why every Broadway leading man has to be a certain type and then now have said it doesn't make sense to you that anyone not if that type could be a leading man. Or the incredulous idea that the 'hot' woman could not fall for the 'schlub'- somehow complaining about stereotypes while reinforcing them.

    So what exactly are you trying to say? I think what you're actually talking about is you specifically- why YOU don't get a chance at those parts. I don't know you, so I can't answer that, but I find your point to be lost when you dismiss everybody else as 'flat' and 'I don't understand it' 'how could she fall for him?'

    You have more contradictions then you do usernames.

    And I never thought you were attacking Nathan Lane, I was simply pointing out that no- he won't play Marius or the Phantom but who cares? He has played the GREAT parts.

    If you're goal is to play the traditional
    Broadway leading man- then sorry, you need to do the work. I find it hard to empathize with you when you question casting- while dismissing everyone else. You feed stereotypes and then complain about them.

    As for Nathan Detroit, I'd be hard pressed to find anyone that says he isn't a principal. His story is not traditional musical theatre plot, but that's why that show is brilliant. You can't expect anyone to listen to you when you complain about the bold and then complain about it being broken (just because it doesn't break in your favor)

    SteveRogers 09/22/2016  11:36am

    *mold not bold and *your

    Sorry- autocorrects a killer.


    One more thing- you say 'Nathan doesn't fall in love, he's already got the girl'

    Have you seen Guys and Dolls?

    SteveRogers 09/22/2016  11:39am

    If you are lucky enough to be a leading man type, can sing, and can play straight, you should be able to work all the time.

    "Waaaaah, I have to workout." Suck it the fuck up. Get to the gym...or be a lazy ass and don't... Gain 50 pounds and work all the time as a musical theatre character actor. But stop crying. Those of us that can't sing (and many that do) don't wanna hear it. You got a first world problem.

    FDNYactor 09/22/2016  11:49am

    ^also that

    SteveRogers 09/22/2016  12:01pm

    I'm super character actor-y and I've played many romantic parts. And best friends and schlubs and villains etc... Sure, I'm not likely to play the classic leading man, but there is a much better chance of me being fat Hamlet (shout out to Simon Russell Beale) than an "average or bigger" woman playing Ophelia.

    And the leading men on Broadway are hardly all the same! Look at the leading men of Hamilton, Book of Mormon, Something Rotten and Aladdin and tell me they're all the same type. Some overlap, sure, but there is a lot more diversity in their physicalities than is typically afforded women on Broadway.

    DoctorUsername 09/22/2016  12:17pm

    Okay, I'll fan the flame. I think both the industry & the world have become more youth & beauty oriented--& continue to do so. This has an impact of both men & women. It's not necessarily great for our artistry. I also think actors are very quick to decide they have some type incongruity that is holding them back. Unless casting people in high places have repeatedly told you they don't know what to do with you because of your body type, you can't be sure what's going on. Sometimes we're not cast because of the arbitrary nature of the business, subjectivity or even . . . yikes . . . our work. And finally--I've never particularly liked the term character actor because I think it's often a euphemism for unattractive. Are romantic leads not characters? To me, being a character actor means having the ability to fully inhabit a variety of characters. Gaining 50 pounds might not make one a character actor--just a heavy leading man.

    Cuperto 09/22/2016  9:21pm

    My initial post was re: romantic leading man. That's a type. Nathan Lane is not that type. Again, he's awesome. I trekked out to Brooklyn to see him do Iceman Cometh. I think he's incredible. But he's not a "romantic leading male." My "gripe" was that often times women complain about having to fit a mold or being a certain size, and yet, as men, we aren't allowed to complain - as evident by this thread. You don't see plus size male models.

    Hamilton, Book of Mormon, Something Rotten, and Aladdin all have 'thin' leading men. Even the Josh Gadd track has gone more traditional over the years.

    Leading does not mean principle. That's not what I'm saying.

    And I'm not debating a 300lb guy vs. a 180lb guy. I'm just saying, women are allowed to be a bit curver, yet men have a very specific type. That's all.

    Tis I Muhahaha! 09/23/2016  12:47am

    Ok- but you've proved your own point.

    First, we have to adhere to the idea that women have a little more leeway than men (not something I'm sure I agree with).

    Secondly, you say it seems that men must fit an exact type to be a leading man and that seems - something- silly? Unfair? A double standard? Pick what you think.

    And yet, in this very thread you've said 'I don't get why Kevin James is a thing', 'I don't get how he has a hot wife', 'I don't buy the relationship in School of Rock' and then turn around and say 'I don't get why leading man have almost no leeway in body type'

    Do you see how you're contradicting yourself?

    I don't think you're wrong- I think the sentiments you've expressed are shared by a large number of media consumers and since theatre, tv, films are products- we must sell people what they want if we want to make money (and I'm talking about strict dollars and cents, not artistic integrity)

    So yes- traditional musical theatre leading men will continue to stay a VERY specific type as long as the sentiments you've expressed- that you just don't buy anything else- continue to prevail.

    You can't claim something is a double standard (while having a shakey foundation on that anyway- I'm
    Not sure if the ladies will agree with you) and then turn around and literally reinforce why that standard exists.

    SteveRogers 09/23/2016  9:57am

    Guys, unless someone is being blatantly offensive or threatening, it's ok to bitch and "get it off your chest", as the name suggests, without feeling diminished or invalidated.

    Grungesax 09/23/2016  12:54pm

    Some shows I can play vers/bottom, but most timez I can only play power bot, so like...i'm pretty marketable

    Fatniss_Neverlean 09/23/2016  1:25pm

    I don’t think anyone has the intention of diminishing or validating anyone. This is called a discussion- it’s a pretty standard form of communication.

    Aktin posted something which has various different opinions, and here we are discussing and challenging them- and each other. If anyone countering you makes you feel diminished or invalidated that’s on you- and I wish you luck in like, life in general.

    I think the idea of “type” is interesting while being both valid and total bullshit at the same time. I think the reasons why “type” exist, and people’s reactions to it are interesting and I also think if we are going to complain about it, and push against it, we need call out our own preconceived notions on it- as I did with Aktin- and as another thread is doing right below.

    Discussing is how anything gets anywhere. Crying victim when challenged, even gently, is pathetic.

    SteveRogers 09/23/2016  1:53pm

    Minor point: plus size male model: www.buzzfeed.com

    Now a thing.

    emuhe 09/23/2016  5:06pm

    I get that, but telling someone to suck it the fuck up may not be the most constructive or encouraging of further dialogue. Everyone has their insecurities and struggles, even if they are not immediately evident.

    Grungesax 09/23/2016  5:11pm

    Remember that time we found Aktin was talking to himself on a thread? THE GOOD OL' DAYS

    Fatniss_Neverlean 09/23/2016  5:26pm

    ^I don’t remember that but no lie, I kind of want to read it.

    As far as “telling someone to suck it the fuck up” (whoever did that up there), sure it may be aggressive but sometimes it really is the truth.

    This a WHOLE other discussion- and one I’m not really interested in as it gets jimmies rustling and I don’t care that much- but personally, I do observe a large amount of entitlement from early career actors. We see it on this board all the time.

    I know a lot of people hate that word, but I think it fits. This idea that the industry should change for us, that we are perfect and not to blame for anything is ridiculous and annoying and pathetic.

    Are there aspects the industry needs to change on? No doubt- race and casting being the obvious and most current. But that’s about it. The rest is whining from people who want things handed to them.

    So sometimes, “suck it the fuck up” is appropriate. No one is going to cater to you nor should they. If you want certain parts, you need to look those parts. It’s also part of the job. Personally, I don’t buy the whole “change for me, so I don’t have to change” but I’m sure I’ll be told why I’m wrong- and thats fine.

    SteveRogers 09/23/2016  6:47pm

    Please reread because you were all were very awful and jumping down my throat for no reason. I wasn't trying to stir the pot or be rude or anything. It was just an honest to God question/thought I had, and thought maybe would be a fun discussion. But I forget that there's like 10 people who are allowed to start topics on here, and if you aren't in that "inner circle" then people will just spew venom at you.

    And honestly I don't see how I'm debating with myself. I'm just saying, in theater, to be a "romantic lead" as a male, you have fit a certain mold. It's not even a thing about muscle, they just want you to be thin. Very thin. That's all.

    Elsewhere in the media, you can be overweight and people will still buy it - Jack Black, Seth Rogan, etc - so why is it that musical theater is so behind the times? I mean, why can't Alexander Hamilton be a thicker/chubbier guy? Or Burr? Why do the guys in Holiday Inn need to look a certain way? That's all. I'm not "bitching" and woe is me, it's just a thought/question/debate. That's all.

    So Tom can go eat his feelings for being so damn rude.

    Tis I Muhahaha! 09/24/2016  12:41am

    For no reason? You begin by saying women don't have to deal with what men have to deal with, which is a non starter. Possibly the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. Like... that is just either willfully ignorant or woefully stupid as a statement. How very dare you.

    Then you proceed to say that leading men have to look a certain way as your gripe while saying Nathan Lane wasn't a leading man because he looked a certain way in Guys and Dolls. I get that you're pursuing musical theatre as a career, but have you ever *seen* a musical? Yes, there are shows where the leading man is built and conventionally sexy, and if you want to be that, than BE THAT. Its a CHOICE. Go to a gym. Planet Fitness is like $12 a month and the provide cheat day for you. But there are plenty of leading men who are also character actors because there are in fact musicals in which the leading men are just every day men. Get a grip and a clue.

    As far as this board goes, don't post if you're not ready for people to disagree. Everyone has an opinion, but not everyone's opinion is right. For proof, see the Republican Party.

    And then you bring up film? Like... where the hell to even begin with that? You're telling me you think, what, Jack Black in "Shallow Hall" is a fucking leading man, but Nathan Lane in Addams Family isn't? That Seth Rogen in "Zack and Miri Make a Porno" is the Robert Goulet of our time? What in the actual fuck?

    You are both bitching, and are a little bitch. Like who has patience for this? Maybe the reason you can't get cast in your dream roles is the fact you are clueless to this industry and how it works, and that you get offended that people have little to zero patience for it.

    MotherMonsterApproved 09/24/2016  1:45am

    Not to mention you start a post by saying, "So I'm going to be as understanding and non-offensive as possible, BUT..."

    Did you honestly think that was going to end well? In what situation does saying something like that followed by the word "but" EVER END WELL?

    MotherMonsterApproved 09/24/2016  1:52am

    That...that was beautiful.

    SteveRogers 09/24/2016  10:07am

    steve, just actually reading this and "He very famously played Nathan Detroit" might be the best thing i've ever read on this website

    Fatniss_Neverlean 09/24/2016  10:38am

    Fatniss,

    better than this?

    imgur.com

    SteveRogers 09/24/2016  10:46am

    If we're really being an honest, it is and always will be Screlter's simple response in this thread:

    www.auditionupdate.com

    Fatniss_Neverlean 09/24/2016  11:08am

    "u ok" is my favorite response.

    ScreltersAnonymous 09/24/2016  11:59am

    Aktin did you get seen for that or..?

    SteveRogers 09/24/2016  12:03pm

    Don't really get how you all can be just as awful and bully/make fun of me, and somehow it's okay and just for laughs? It's the bitching post for fucksakes. I didn't intend to offend anyone, but I know weight is such a sensitive issue, hence why I said what I said. If you want to bring the pitch forks out every time I post something, then that's fine. I've got thick skin, and proud of the career I have and the work I'm doing. I'm not gonna cry and whimper because some internet trolls are poking fun at me.

    Tis I Muhahaha! 09/24/2016  11:05pm
    SteveRogers 09/24/2016  11:15pm

    Aktin, did you ever stop to think that you might be the troll?

    littleeagle 09/25/2016  12:20am
    Fatniss_Neverlean 09/25/2016  1:19am

    Aktin, no. The reason people bring out the pitchforks every single time you post something is because of the way you talk on here.

    I don't know how you interact in social situations IRL, but on here you have a real block as far as what's considered antisocial behaviour. Either that or you have a massive disconnect between what you think you're giving off versus what you're actually giving off.

    At this very minute there's another thread on here where you said something shitty to someone all the while fancying it came off as you being a sassy gay friend. Did you really believe that's how it would read? If so, that's delusional, girl.

    I've lost count of the number of times on this site where you've belittled other people's gripes with phrases like "calm down", "I don't understand why this is such a problem for you", followed by some thin anecdote about how that specific problem wasn't a problem for you, therefore it must not be a big deal. You exhibit close to no sympathy on here unless you share that specific complaint.

    You may change your name frequently but someone will always figure out it's you because you just can't help yourself...you have to revert back to the shitty way you communicate.

    Noone else on here writes with that amazing combination of self delusion, apathy, and general disconnect to how people with any social skills talk to each other.

    basicNAB 09/25/2016  12:31pm

    ^^^ That. Exactly that.

    It's like the weird old guy in my parent's neighborhood who responds to everyone's facebook questions with self-absorbed, useless responses. The other day, someone asked, "Does anyone have a computer monitor I can borrow for a few days?"

    And the guy replied, "I have three monitors but I'm using all of them."

    That's how Aktin comes across to me.

    texicalyorker 09/25/2016  2:20pm
  • Underdog productions 09/23/2016  11:41pm

    Hi guys, so my boyfriend just got an unsolicited email from Neel at "underdog productions." The email is a little shady and he offers little to no information about what he's even casting, but we just wanted to check in before we pass up the opportunity. Does anyone know anything about him/his films? Is he legit or sketch?

    decisions

    Sorry, but how desperate are you? If it seems shady, it's probably shady. Just pass on it. It's okay to pass.

    Tis I Muhahaha! 09/24/2016  12:33am

    Thank you for your reply but there's no need to be rude. I feel this way but he wants to know more before he takes the time to audition.

    decisions 09/24/2016  8:18am

    The answer is No

    SteveRogers 09/24/2016  10:04am

    Thanks for both of your responses and, while I understand your point and agree with you, it saddens me how rude people are to each other on this website. Vocalizing your opinion is important and so is being honest, but being bitter and angry about it is not. I hope you both have a great weekend!

    decisions 09/24/2016  12:55pm

    Unsolicited emails with no information about the director/company/CD, etc. are usually a red flag, at least for me. Use your spidey sense - but if a google search doesn't yield ANY information, I doubt whatever project they're doing will be beneficial to you.

    That being said - I agree: is there a reason people feel the need to be so snarky right off the bat? It takes the exact same amount of effort to type a polite response as it does for a rude one.

    It's one of the reasons I'm not nearly as active on this site as I used to be.

    bowe123 09/24/2016  1:32pm

    I'm confused how any of this was snarky.

    SteveRogers 09/24/2016  2:55pm

    "Sorry, but how desperate are you?" sounds pretty snarky to me.

    bowe123 09/24/2016  10:19pm

    Yet when people are snarky to me it is somehow my fault? K. Cool.

    Tis I Muhahaha! 09/24/2016  11:01pm

    And it's not so much snarky as just a sassy gay friend telling you like it is. I mean, if you're gut is telling you this is shady, why not trust your gut instead of a bunch of strangers on a message board?

    Tis I Muhahaha! 09/24/2016  11:02pm
    SteveRogers 09/24/2016  11:12pm

    Well, they weren't looking for opinions, they were literally asking if anyone knew of the company...

    ScreltersAnonymous 09/24/2016  11:30pm

    @Tis I Muah Ha blah blah:

    Because you don't always trust your gut, and don't want to miss out on an otherwise good opportunity because you were overly paranoid. That's why they asked.

    cdn.meme.am

    bowe123 09/25/2016  2:50am

    Interestingly, Googling "Underdog Productions" brings up a real company founded by Seth McFarlane: americandad.wikia.com

    I doubt that that company would be sending out unsolicited casting emails, though. The rule of thumb is that if it sounds shady, it probably is.

    Can you post the actual text of the email so we can see what it said?

    actorsmom 09/25/2016  10:28am

    Hi Actors mom! I found this as well, but from what i understand they're not the same company. Here is the text from the email:

    "Hi,

    I'm neel, filmmaker from underdog productions. You submitted for one
    of my projects in the past, and I'd like to bring you in to audition for
    couple of projects of mine.

    Please let me know when are you available from 9/24-10/10.I will setup audition.
    It will be in NYC."

    He went on to provide scripts and sides from 3 different projects he's written. He also provided pictures from a flickr account but they were really amateurish and we weren't sure what they were from even (not marked with affiliated projects).

    We do not remember submitting a video for this company specifically because sometimes postings just list names or titles.

    My boyfriend is a talented film actor but is just getting started in the industry, and as I do musical theatre and concert dance, I can't be of as much help as I'd like (why I posted on this website originally).

    Thank you for your help and your constructive remarks :)!


    decisions 09/25/2016  12:35pm

    Okay, then I would say:
    1) Are the scripts and sides well-written, or amateurish and bad? Do they seem like projects your boyfriend would be proud to be involved with?
    2) Does "Neel" have a last name?
    3) Does the email give names of any COMPLETED projects he has done?

    The poor grammar of the email, and the fact that the linked pictures etc. are amateurish, would be enough for me to say "pass." And if your gut is saying the same (which it seems to be), then you should pass as well. Given the amateurishness of the email and pictures, there's no fear that you're giving up some amazing opportunity.

    actorsmom 09/25/2016  1:03pm
  • Why.... 09/24/2016  11:20am

    Don't more girls sing Spitfire grill for auditions? SO GOOD

    Fatniss_Neverlean

    Wholly agree. There are MANY songs I wish would be done more often, but that means giving away one of mine ;) that's my secret weapon!

    Showbizdreamer 09/24/2016  12:32pm

    Because some of the songs are SO hard to play! But agreed. Amazing score.

    littleeagle 09/25/2016  12:22am

    Aktin acting like...

    www.youtube.com

    Fatniss_Neverlean 09/25/2016  1:19am

    lol

    Fatniss_Neverlean 09/25/2016  1:19am
  • Agent Meeting 09/23/2016  9:40pm

    Hi AU!

    What do you wish you would have known going into an agent meeting? I have an initial meeting and I was curious as to what I should expect. Or even some do’s and don’ts from personal experiences! Like what are the questions to ask the agency or how can you best prepare yourself for what they might ask? I know these are totally green questions but any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!!

    rockyraccoon

    A hopeful bump!

    rockyraccoon 09/24/2016  10:22pm

    Make a list of all the people you've been in for (especially CDs). Know what roles you are right for and have those ready at your disposal as well. They will ask general questions like career goals etc. just be personable and not "desperate" and you'll do great!

    PingyZ 09/24/2016  11:07pm
  • NAB - Baker Management 01/29/2016  11:53am

    I just had a meeting with them. Anyone work with them, are they legit??

    sam_smells

    Yes, totally legit! I'll admit, I had my doubts at first, but they are the real deal. Lots of film appointments, but they still have the power to get you in for good theatre.

    Also very chill people--if you want an appointment for something, they're easily approachable. Also great at working with you if you're out of town

    This IS an agency that is better than no agent.

    caccy 01/29/2016  11:56am

    they are great! really nice people. VERY busy office.

    kitchencounter 01/29/2016  1:29pm

    Meh. He ll get you appointments for theaterworks and cruise ships. That's about it

    Mimimarquez 01/29/2016  1:54pm

    Good for commercials and vo especially non Union

    dopplegang 01/29/2016  2:30pm

    There are two Baker Managements in NYC. One is Jaime Baker Management--primarily a commercial, voice over, television office with an expanding theatre division. Gregg Baker is an LA-based office with an NYC theatre division.

    kitchencounter 01/29/2016  2:31pm

    I saw they posted looking for submissions, so figured I'd pull this back up after searching. Anything new to add or say?
    As much as I 'almost' would rather have an agent, somehow that thought still is somewhat terrifying, therefore possibly not ready for one. I just would would like any decent rep, so I figured I might as well start that part of this career stage.

    I found another thread that mentioned he looks for submission because while yes he's bicoastal, he's still headquartered in LA, but comes out here a couple times to search for new clients, otherwise I also would find 'looking for submissions' a red flag, but that seems to make sense. Plus I see a few agencies we all know are pretty legit post about submissions here and there when they need to. Most of the other threads were older, and this was the most recent. Any new info would be great.

    Showbizdreamer 09/19/2016  6:24pm

    Assuming you're talking about Jamie Baker, I can't say enough wonderful things about them. I've gotten some wonderful appointments with them and it's just a great team.

    Icanseeyou 09/19/2016  6:41pm

    FYI- Gregg Baker's posted for submissions, not Jaime Baker's. :)
    I heard Jaime Baker'S office is haunted though, but that could just be a rumor. Idk.

    Fatniss_Neverlean 09/19/2016  6:46pm

    What constitutes "strong resumes/credits"? I'm a new grad with excellent training, EMC points, and a few regional credits, but haven't worked at any of the big regional houses or toured. Is it worth it to get representation now, or should I try to build up my reputation on my own first?

    tellthemstories 09/19/2016  6:48pm

    Ah crud,yes I meant Gregg! Lolz I even meant to say so, knowing that Jamie was mentioned here too Lolz!

    Showbizdreamer 09/19/2016  7:40pm

    Tellme-if it's any consolation, I haven't done hardly any of that either...I've worked for two places that could be considered regional, couple theme parks, haven't toured or even done a ship yet and I'm five years out. I still wouldn't say I have an extensive resume. Only now just starting (sort of) to possibly look. I've never really looked before because the prospect still scares the ever living hell out of me. I also know I very possibly dont devote as much time to this career as I might need to. I'd still rather be a human with a moral center and sanity with time to spare to life. I hate such a "go go go" life, and among many reasons that tie into the above, they have also kept from really wanting to look either.

    Everyone is different, if all you want is rep, do it. I always was pretty patient about that part. I personally wanted to have an ok resume when, or if, I started searching. While I wouldnt say my resume is anything to gawk at, at least now it's finally somewhat decent to hand in to someone...I think. I've never said that up until now, therefore never searched for rep. I may not be finding work on my own right now, and I know everyone says no one wants you if you're not finding work yourself, but it's almost a catch 22. I have an ok resume and I've been getting what I feel is good feedback in classes, and as they're asking for submissions...why not?

    Showbizdreamer 09/19/2016  7:59pm

    So we're just gonna ignore the fact that they got a ghost over at Jaime baker's office? OKKKKKK

    Fatniss_Neverlean 09/19/2016  9:27pm

    ^I heard that the ghost's name was Brianne Maserati and she's more shady than scary

    bwaylvsong 09/19/2016  9:36pm

    I have no idea what to say about these supposed hauntings except...👻👻👻👻👻👻👻👻👻👻👻👻👻👻

    😉

    But back to topic...

    Showbizdreamer 09/19/2016  9:41pm

    I'm with Gregg - he's a great guy and works hard for his roster. He has had a lot of successful bookings and he genuinely vets people. I went in to dance for him, then came back and sang 4 songs from my book, then had a 15-20 min meeting. I liked that he genuinely took his time to see what I did and get to know me. I got my first round of EMC points because of an appointment from him, and I've gone on for multiple pilots and lots of gigs ranging from cruises to tours to good regional houses to hairspray live.

    tryintomakeit 09/20/2016  12:28am

    I was with Gregg for several years and I highly recommend him. Ironically, I am actually with Jaime now. They aren't related or affiliated AT ALL and they are completely different in terms of how they run their offices. But I love them both.
    Gregg makes everyone sign exclusively (yes, this means you will pay him for any jobs you book regardless of whether he got you the appointment). But he is extremely organized and seems to have a very good reputation these days with NYC theatre offices. Jaime is much more casual/informal and has many more clients. But he does send clients out significantly more on tv/film/commercials (in addition to theatre). VERY busy office.

    kitchencounter 09/20/2016  1:24am

    I was with ghost management for a few years but found them to be a little unreliable. We'd schedule meetings but they'd ghost. Idk.

    Fatniss_Neverlean 09/20/2016  4:55pm

    Honestly, that's fucked up. we work our ass off for our clients. Everyone sits here and says "BOO-hoo" but they never think about our feelings. I'm done. I'm out. #ShouldHaveGoneToPurgatory

    ghost 09/20/2016  5:07pm

    Ugh. The supernatural are always so *sensitive*.

    ScreltersAnonymous 09/20/2016  7:56pm

    Has anyone heard back/got an appointment from the recent Gregg Baker submission post yet?

    Esmeralda 09/22/2016  10:41am

    ^^lolz you beat me to it :)
    Athoigh from the way the posting made it sound, it sounds like the actually appts aren't until next month, so plenty of time to hear back? Maybe? Perhaps I'm just misreading everything.

    Showbizdreamer 09/22/2016  10:46am

    Went to read it again, it's says appts scheduled within the next week, but the it lists the deadline as September 30. So who knows.

    Showbizdreamer 09/22/2016  10:51am

    do you mind saying where this was posted? Thanks!

    basicNAB 09/22/2016  12:46pm

    nevermind...found it!

    basicNAB 09/22/2016  12:49pm

    did anyone hear back yet ??

    winkandwiggle 09/22/2016  10:44pm

    I got a meeting, and BOO-ked heathers with them,

    ghost 09/22/2016  11:06pm

    Anything heard from this round of submissions??

    JCrewGinghamShirt 09/23/2016  4:25pm

    Not yet...if at all

    Showbizdreamer 09/23/2016  5:09pm

    bump did anyone hear anything yet?

    winkandwiggle 09/24/2016  8:19pm
  • ENOUGH 09/22/2016  1:23pm

    I'm over Black women being shoved into a teensy little box as if we're all the same. I swear people behind audition tables listen with their freakin eyes rather than their ears when a black woman (or male) walks in to sing. Are you listening? Do you hear the Disney-esque/pop belt/classical sound I'm giving you?! Where in my voice do you think I can whip out some gospel and soul? NO. Stop asking me to sing these stereotypical styles in callbacks because you can't find it in your being to actually cast a black woman in a role that breaks the unjustified norm?

    It's so unfair how white this business is. I do theatre as an ESCAPE from the racist nonsense of the world... Low and be hold its no better here either

    B00pB00p

    I hear you, and I'm sorry that you have to put up with such bullshit.

    Sid Solomon, AEA Eastern Principal Councilor - #SIDforAEA 09/22/2016  6:04pm

    I appreciate this reply more than you know. Thank you!!

    B00pB00p 09/22/2016  6:48pm

    My friend and I were just talking about her frustration with this the other day. It's not right and I'm with ya!

    QuietRevolution 09/22/2016  6:52pm

    It's absurd!! We're missing out on so many jobs due to this, I cant even deal. Thanks for your reply <3

    B00pB00p 09/22/2016  7:01pm

    This is incredibly frustrating and it pisses me off to see my incredibly talented friends be put into these boxes, too! Please remember that you are a star and not to ever say no to yourself. Keep being angry about this and never let people tell you who you are. You tell them who you are! It's gross that this industry has made you feel this way.

    ScreltersAnonymous 09/22/2016  8:51pm

    Love this reply! I Desperately want to start figuring out ways to put my foot down when it comes to this issue, but I feel like I'll run the risk of being deemed "difficult" or unhirable which is scary in this tight knit community. You know racism is real when you can even stand up for yourself without suffering serious consequences, especially as a black person. I will DEFINITELY stay angry about it and do whatever I can to try to break the mold. Honestly though, real change will only happen when the power holders actively choose to unlearn their biases about types and casting. Appreciate your thoughts so much!

    B00pB00p 09/22/2016  10:24pm

    That's awful... It's crazy because theater people are generally so progressive, but we still have so much of this bullshit around. Really weird.

    babyjulia 09/23/2016  12:28am

    Agreed. But don't agree with using white = ignorant. It's not the same thing.

    Tis I Muhahaha! 09/23/2016  12:41am

    Where did she say that white = ignorant? She was pointing out that this industry, and society in general, has been built to serve and benefit white people.

    bowe123 09/23/2016  2:49am

    THANK YOU for beating me to it ^

    B00pB00p 09/23/2016  9:21am

    I'm the whitest of white guys, and I just want to say that this totally blows. I'm so sorry that you have to deal with this kind of shit.

    Have you seen Nikki Renee Daniels singing the bajeezus out of Light in the Piazza? I would kill to see more of her and other black actors performing legit repertoire (that isn't Porgy and Bess...even though I love Porgy and Bess).

    www.playbill.com

    TenorGuy 09/23/2016  9:55am

    SPEAK THIS TRUTH!!!
    I'm a classically trained black baritone. You would think this would be very easy to work with. NOPE!
    I don't know if this has always been a thing but I'm constantly losing parts to other black men who sing gospel or...just higher. Doesn't matter if it's Coalhouse, Jim in Big River Fred in Smokey Joes, or ANY role in Book of Mormon (WHICH WHY THE HELL DO WE HAVE TO SING GOSPEL SONGS FOR THAT AUDITION?!, everyone wants high singing gospel singers. So you're saying I can't play the white classical baritone roles, just because...but now I can't play the black ones anymore either? COME.ON.

    Butwhythough 09/23/2016  11:23am

    YES. YES TO THIS ALL. I'm really tired of being made to feel like I'm not "soulful" or "urban" enough - which is really just code for the fact that I don't fit the black stereotypes people seem to be looking for.

    Just because I don't walk around riffing or wailing gospel tunes doesn't make me any less black, and also doesn't mean I couldn't be right for a role that doesn't specifically call for actors of color. Sigh.

    PinoNoirRoseanneBarr 09/23/2016  1:16pm

    It makes me so sad to read all these replies, and at the same time it makes me happy that I'm not feeling these things alone. Change has GOT to happen.

    Another thing that's been plaguing my mind is the fact that never, EVER have I auditioned for a non white panel. How many casting directors of color are even out there?!?! (Im sure there are some, but heck I have yet to meet 'em.)

    I can't stress enough that the people in power HAVE TO WAKE TF UP!!!!!!

    B00pB00p 09/23/2016  7:57pm

    Not gunna lie... Was is Telsey the other day and was DYING to sing for the Sweeney auditions that were going on But did not and probably wouldn't have if my agent tried, get an appointment for it😔

    Macie Lightfoot 09/24/2016  5:02am

    That breaks my heart 😔 I myself would kill to be Joanna, buuuuut.... #murica

    B00pB00p 09/24/2016  10:17am
  • Oops 09/23/2016  9:35pm

    Do you ever just fuck up? Like not look at your planner and then realize at 9:38pm you missed an EPA you really wanted to attend?

    Because lol. Hi.

    I hate myself.

    ScreltersAnonymous

    Not as bad as getting your dates mixed up and arriving to an audition you had an appointment for a day late. Cause I've been there and it is not fun.

    INeverGotToBeAnnie 09/23/2016  9:40pm

    Ugh that IS awful. I'm so sorry that's happened.

    I emailed the casting director of this particular project. Expecting nothing, but hoping for something. At least I tried lol

    ScreltersAnonymous 09/23/2016  9:50pm
  • Invisalign and Acting 09/20/2016  3:05am

    Has anyone here gotten Invisalign as an adult? I would like to eventually - my teeth aren't terrible, and aren't stopping me from booking work, I mostly want to get it for personal reasons.

    But I'm curious how that works if you're a working actor? I know you're supposed to wear it something like 20 hours out of the day, and only really take it out to eat. What if you're shooting a film? Is it hugely noticeable, to the point that you'll be able to tell on camera? If you're on stage, does it affect the way you sing?

    Doesn't seem like just taking it out while you perform is an option, because That could add to up a lot of time in the day and it would defeat the point of getting it...

    Any thoughts or experiences you could share would be great!

    bowe123

    I had invisalign while in school and loved it! the very first time I put a retainer in I had a slight lisp for like two days lol which was not cute, but after that it was totally normal. I went to Adam Goodman on the East Side if you're looking for an ortho too, he's the best! Sometimes it sucks when you put a new retainer in every two weeks bc you definitely have a lot of soreness for a few days, but it was pretty easy to smile through the discomfort and eat some softer foods for a few days :) hope this helped!

    nahnahnah 09/20/2016  6:54am

    I had Invisalign as an adult while performing. I did find that it affected my singing and speech slightly. I always took them out to audition and when I did book a job I told the director and MD about it. I wore them for rehearsals but took them out for shows. My experience was that the most important time to wear them constantly was the first few days of a new aligner. That's when your teeth shift the most. Then for the next 10 days that you wear it it is mostly keeping them in the same place which is why it stops hurting. Feel free to ask any questions

    sngrgirl1 09/20/2016  7:43am

    I too have had invisalign as an adult. I got mine just as I was starting a resort contract...I took them out for performances but wore them during rehearsals and had no problem with my singing. I also frequently left the bottom one even for performances...it was the top one that was more noticeable and affected speech/singing more.
    I actually still wear my bottom on overnight since I don't have a permanent retainer...something I think I will remedy soon!

    Had braces when I was a teen and my teeth got out of alignment b/c I was dumb and didn't wear my retainers...invisalign was great!

    singforyoursupper 09/20/2016  1:35pm

    ^^ Exactly what happened to me. Years of braces as a kid and I was dumb and didn't wear my retainer. WEAR YOUR RETAINER, KIDS.

    Thanks everyone! I'm more of a film/tv actor so I guess I was more concerned about it being noticeable on camera, or having to take it out repeatedly for long takes.

    bowe123 09/20/2016  1:56pm

    I currently have invisalign as an adult actor and would be happy to answer any questions you have about it! Feel free to email me at ebtheatregirl@optonline.net

    ebtheatregirl 09/20/2016  2:01pm

    Wow, this has been on my mind all year. I'm not alone! How much did everyone pay for theirs? My quote was $5,200 :(

    It's keeping me from moving forward.

    Ctgsjc 09/20/2016  5:14pm

    I'm doing a discount version of Invisalign right now called Smile Direct Club! It's working!

    Onefineday 09/20/2016  5:44pm

    The best time to start Invisalign is yesterday - I'm loving it right now, and I'm about half way through the 54 weeks that I was scheduled. I pull the "trays" out for auditions and then right back in after.

    It will absolutely - eventually - give you the teeth you want along with the emotional change that comes with major life steps :-)

    Let me fully recommend Dr Kenn Kakosian in the Chrysler Building (hello Roger DeBris) who did mine for $2999 and still has that price available according to his website, and was the cheapest I found after PLENTY of searching (including one GroupOn semi-scam...lame). The clinic number is (888) 450-6293. If you end up with him and he asks how you heard etc etc, feel free to say Tim from New Zealand.

    Smiles to you all :-)

    BroadwayKiwi 09/20/2016  6:11pm

    Speaking of invisible....

    ghost 09/20/2016  7:31pm

    Tim - can you post where that quote is listed online with that Densit? That might me a game changer for me.

    Now as far as that smile club, their pricing looks great but I'm read some really poor reviews on their Facebook page as it always comes up as a "sponsored posted" I'm nervous to go through the process with them.

    Ctgsjc 09/20/2016  8:07pm

    Sure thing - it's www.nyc-dentalign.com

    :-)

    BroadwayKiwi 09/20/2016  9:51pm

    @onefineday how has your experience been with Smile Direct Club?

    bearatone11 09/20/2016  11:23pm

    Good so far! 2nd set of trays! Got my scan done at office in BK

    Onefineday 09/23/2016  9:12pm
  • NAB - Asking for the Full Script 09/22/2016  3:41pm

    This might be a dumb questions but I just got a callback for a play. They only sent sides and it's a new play so it's not online. Is it unprofessional to ask for the full script before the callback?

    Thanks!

    spicee2510

    This is a great question.

    I always assumed it couldn't hurt to ask for the script before a callback and I definitely would ask for if before accepting a role, if offered.

    However I've encountered writers being cagey about this in the past and that's made me confused.

    Just last week I got a call from a complete stranger asking me to do a reading of his screenplay. He found my reel on the Columbia Casting database. I asked to read the script or even some sides first and he got weird and said his agent didn't want him sending it out and that we'd all get scripts at the reading. I don't like taking jobs sight unseen so I declined.

    This was also not the only time something like this had happened to me.

    Is this some sort of faux pas? Is there any truth to agents not wanting their clients' material out there or is that a load of crap?

    I'd love to hear people's thoughts on this. Can any writers chime in on this one?

    basicNAB 09/22/2016  5:13pm

    You have every right to ask for the full script. No one is going to take a job without reading the script. Now, you may not get it before you audition. That happens a lot in the film/tv world. But once you're going to be booked, it's ridiculous not to be able to read it. Unless it's some popular tv show or the next Avengers movie, you shouldn't have to sign on to something that you don't know what it is.

    Especially if it's a new play. I can understand not sending it out at the audition stage, but once you're offering out roles, that's a little ridiculous.

    filmandtheatreactress 09/22/2016  7:41pm

    I worked with one of my professors on a play that she wrote that she was in the process of having published. Legally, it was difficult for her to share the script online. We mostly dealt with physical copies, but when she did need to email it to someone (like the dramaturg) then they just had to agree to delete the file from their computer once they were done with it, and I think there was some sort of watermark. And when she held auditions, she put physical copies in the school library so the students could read the play there without taking it home.

    TLDR: if a play is being published then there can be reasons for not sharing it, but the writer might be able to find ways around that.

    I think it should be fine to say "Just wondering if I could read a copy of the full play before the callback to help me prepare. If not, I understand!"

    MaryWarren 09/23/2016  8:04pm
  • What to Pack: Cruise Line 09/23/2016  1:38am

    Hey guys, embarking on a cruise contract soon. What are must haves that most people wouldnt realize as they were packing!?

    WhatIdidforaPaycheck

    So silly and very specific to me but I always take a small magic bullet type blender. Healthy smoothies all the time!

    Hard drive with TV/movies is a lifesaver :)

    Have fun!

    New2nyc-tryingtolearn 09/23/2016  11:58am

    Everytime this comes up, I always recommend Theatrical Baggage by Erin Sullivan. It is very helpful.

    www.amazon.com

    Major Tom 09/23/2016  12:26pm

    Which cruise line? If it's Royal, don't bring a magic bullet or anything like that... It'll get confiscated like *that*. Bring layers and warm clothes even if based in a hot climate bc the ship is freezing.

    spunkygal007 09/23/2016  3:51pm