It's ok to get it off your chest.
So I'm in a bit of a funk. This is the longest I've gone unemployed, and it's a little maddening. That said, I'm not exactly thrilled/excited to be cast as an ensemble member in South Pacific, or an ensemble member in anything. I've done it. I'm a lead actor, and that's what thrills me. Getting to create a character and fulfill a character-arc and all that. That's what I want, and, as a non-union/EMC, they typically want us for the ensemble, mostly dancing. So it's frustrating. It doesn't excite me, and I'm not great it, and I just don't know where to go. I'm an excellent singer/actor, and I nailed those aspects, but when it comes to the moving/dancing, I don't. Fine, I get it. Take some classes. But I don't really want to be a great dancer. There are plenty of actor/signers out there who are incredible, and that's more my passion. So. I don't. Just venting I guess.
I feel you. It's hard because the same thing can be said for a "dancer"... I find that I NAIL the dancing, but then when i have to sing and read sides, I slip up. It's easy to categorize and think that way, but every show is different and needs a different ensemble- that's how I think of it. A singer/actor is great for Into the Woods, but a dancer isn't. A dancer is great for 42nd street, but you won't be in the ensemble if you can't tap. In many ways, YOU, as the singer/actor, may even have a better chance at getting cast in the ensemble than say, a dancer, because you could ALSO be considered for understudy roles. Whereas I can't.
I know these are things you already know, and I feel you. But just keep the hope alive :)
"But I don't really want to be a great dancer."
Then don't be a great dancer! Seriously, you have an absurd amount of control over your career, and you are beholden to exactly nobody but yourself. Does being not a great dancer limit the number of projects you could be right for? Yeah, obviously. But if you don't give a shit about those projects anyway, why do you care?
I think we get real locked into this idea of "working your way up from the ensemble." Our business doesn't work like that all the time. Not-already-famous people make freaking Broadway debuts as leads all the time. Discussions about "I'm not an ensemblist" aside, there is nothing whatsoever that says definitively you can't do the work that energizes and thrills you if you're not a great dancer or that you should beat yourself up for not giving a shit.
^^^Both of you...NAILED IT. I'm the same boat more or less. It's hard because you know you're capable of those leads, but the people in charge only seem to want to cast Equity (this is if you're not union of course) or people they already know...I get it.
And Raja said exactly it. It does limit what I may be able to go in for, but almost all of those things I couldn't care less about doing. I'm never going to be a 'dancer' but I don't want to do those kinds of shows anyway.
Problem I find is, even the shows where it doesn't have to be dance heavy, are being MADE to be dance heavy...it's been said here, but Spelling Bee was a HUGE culprit of that this year...mylanta why....but I digress.
I'll say this, I got myself back into dance class (yay Motivated Movers!) and I don't regret it at all. It goes without saying I need to be better at even that anyway, because a few dream gigs on my list, I know I'm going to need to be at least a decent mover for them. Am I EVER going to be a dancer/dancer? Oh hell no...and that's fine because those dream jobs on my list only require decent moving at the very least. I know I can sing and act them out of park (I think and hope anyway) but I just need my 'movement' to catch up.
Upset when you pay lots of money for classes with CD's, and then when EPA's role around for their projects, they aren't even in the room, so there is no chance of furthering the relationship. Seems to be happening more and more. Bah!
I've now had two friends at different theatres receive EMC points for being ASM. Not ASM/actor, just ASM. Is this the new AGMA-esque way of getting points or is this legitimate and I'm just out of the loop?
Equity is the Union for both actors and stage managers, so both may participate in the EMC program.
Got it, thanks! I thought that might be it, just didn't realize you could earn EMC points as an ASM.
why would u think it not legit? Actors and SM are in the same union!
I get it. Y'all have status. You're in a union that everyone is trying to get into. Rarely do LORT theatres take chances on EMCS/non eq's. Yaddah yaddah yaddah
But if you are coming into an EPA in which EMCS have been sitting patiently WAITING for 5, 6, 8 hours, PLEASE do us the courtesy of knowing what the fuck you're doing.
It's frustrating enough that these Equity people are rolling in at 4:57 to see if 5:10 appts are open (I GET IT, you might have had work, you missed being called and wanna jump back on he list, wtc). But DONT ASK THE MONITOR QUESTIONS THAT EVEN NON UNION PEOPLE KNOW THE ANSWERS TO.
NO you dont need your headshot resume to submit UPON signing up for an appointment. YES you need a song for YOUR MUSICAL AUDITION. NO you're age/race/creed/color is so wrong, it parallels that of a white person going in for HAMILTON.
Have some fucking respect for the people who are here, WITH our shit together, waiting with NO PRIORITY patiently, HOPING for a CHANCE at 16 bars.
Further, monitors can be a little more aggressive in calling EMCs when we have 7-8 minutes until the next appt!
Mini groups are a thing people. Sitting here for 10 hors when I could be working a shift and not even getting seen NOT because it's busy, but because people arent working efficiently KILLS me.
If it's slammed, dude, TOTALLY get it. I'll sit my happy ass and wait. But if we just dont give a fuck and are not working in an effiecient manner... That is a totally different story
ha, nice usernam
Yes yes yes! The other day I saw multiple AEA members miss their appointments more than once because they don't know the fucking rules. Later, when I was finally in line to go in the room behind one of these individuals, he argued that his audition slot was THREE minutes despite the monitor's saying two and having seen a number of non-eqs who had been waiting on pins and needles for hours. He then proceeded to give an audition that was well over two minutes.
Here we go again...
Y'all--we get it. It's hard being non-union/emc. I've been there and remember exactly what it's like. But I also remember NOT having a seething hatred for equity members doing whatever the fuck they want because...fun fact: we pay for the right to have these EPAs.
I don't know how many times we have to see these posts, and I understand it's the Bitching Post, but you all need to let it go.
Monitors run the auditions for equity members, not for efficiency to see non members. Some are very exceptional at getting you guys in, but to come to an EPA and feel like you have the right to be seen because you've been waiting is 100% the wrong attitude and will only frustrate you more.
It's harsh. It's blunt. But it's the truth.
I don't feel like I have the right to be seen because I've been waiting. I DO feel like I have the right to be treated with common courtesy and to be surrounded only by people who carry themselves in a professional manner.
Equity is already giving you the courtesy of attending EPA's. AFTC is right- you can bemoan anything you think scatterbrained, or unprofessional or what have you but since that person is paying to be there and you are not- they can do what they want.
EMCs, wanna be seen? AGMA
Non Union, wanna be seen? AGMA
Simple solution is yours for $570 and a year.
Steve, believe me, I completely see where you're coming from and appreciate being given the opportunity to get seen at Equity auditions. My issue (or at least the one being expressed in this thread) is with humans who don't give a shit how their actions affect other humans.
I'm sorry but the matter of the fact is pretty simple:
Equity members PAY to have the privileges they have. Non-eq is there as a courtesy and aren't paying toward the union at all so why the entitlement???
I DO however agree about the treatment. Every person should be treated with respect no matter what there status. I will always argue fairly in this respect.
But please, please look at it like any other union. No other union gives special treatment to people not in the union. Union members get certain benefits because they are simply a part of the union. Its not the responsibility of union members to be concerned about non union members. Point blank. Sorry if this seems cold. It doesn't mean union members don't care, etc. It's just we've PAID to be in the union. PAID our hard earned money. So I'm sorry if I am not paying attention to the fact that I had to get there late and hopefully will get seen in the next 5 minutes. That's my right.
Lastly, I'm certainly not unsympathetic to the struggles of future members. I've been there. I know the frustration and struggle but please don't take that out on the people who have what you want. Its just plain unfair. We've all worked hard. Let's support each other.
Um, the OP never said, and even made it clear, that he's not complaining about not having the special treatment or not being seen. What the complaint IS about, is that union members aren't acting like a member. I mean come on, when a member doesn't even know their own unions rules that is plain ridiculous. Even non members know that members are allowed two minutes ITR, not three, and I can't even believe that was even argued. Eq members can trickle in to audition all they want, and as sucky as it is, I'll never complain about it (at least not in public) because i don't have that privilege. The request is to act like a member and know your rules.
^^^and Lolz, sorry but this isn't strictly true....sucky as it is. My mother's union actually does allow privileges for the non members...no I'm not kidding, plus she's seen that in action. A co worker of hers had trouble with the employer and the union represented this person even though she wasn't a member. And even after she got her job back, this idiot STILL wouldn't join. It's in their bylaws that they do/will represent even the non members. Do I agree with that? Oh fuck no. you're not paying into union protection, you shouldn't receive it. I only know about this because I was talking to my mom about the issues with Equity, and she told me that story about her own union. I balked. Yes, there are unions who have those bylaws. Is this common? Nah, I dare say not, but some do.
Oh I gotcha. Trust me, I know how you feel. Douches gonna douche.
I'm gonna have to agree with the OP on this, and I'm Union. When you join equity, there's this whole section on what that means as an actor or stage manager. Basically the gist of it is: be professional and be prepared. Sounds like these members were not.
Here is a list of what union members owe you at an EPA that they paid for and you are hoping to be seen as a courtesy...
1. Common courtesy that should be shown every person.
2. Not another fucking thing.
And just a piece of advice:
The world in general owes you nothing. Suck it up buttercup, or don't come.
I still am in the camp of you're coming to these things with the wrong attitude.
Paraphrased: My issue isn't not being seen, my issue is how other people don't care how their actions effect others.
What that means: I have an issue with not being seen because an equity member wasn't prepared.
You're taking so much of this audition process personally that you're claiming someone is basically treating you and your fellow non-members in an inhumane fashion.
You didn't get seen this time, and you have to just give it up. There is not a single equity member I know of who is personally attacking and ruining your life on purpose.
Bigger fish to fry in the world.
further...I KNOW some kween is going to reply with:
'If you aren't prepared it doesn't matter whether it's on purpose or not, it's still unjust'.
But really, it isn't. An member's lack of preparedness only hurts THEM at an EPA because they are set up for equity members. It is not an injustice on the non-member community because getting seen is a courtesy not a right. Therefore claiming injustice because of someone else's actions is LITERALLY wrong.
Also, to go off of people commenting on equity members not being as prepared as non eq would like, sometimes that BENEFITS non eq. When we miss our appointment times, that sometimes leaves room for mini groups to go earlier than otherwise anticipated.
Also, as far as "knowing the rules," it's a learning process, y'all. People new to equity are still getting familiar with the rules and shit happens and sometimes you're not as on top of it as you should be. Sure, they should read the rules on the website ahead of time, but there's nothing wrong with *double checking* with the monitor, getting clarification or just not having really been aware to do that kind of research ahead of time.
And you could keep on saying, "well, I'm non eq and even I know the equity rules," like okay, bro. We get it, you are prepared when the time comes, but it hasn't. however, in the mean time, you can keep reviewing the rules while you wait and get butthurt because a few equity members aren't thinking of you when they have a question on how things work. As so many have already said, we've alllll been there. We all know how frustrating it is and can be. We all know what it's like to feel like we aren't being taken into account, because it's true. You're not and you won't be, not because you're not a member, but because you're someone I don't know who I don't figure into the rest of my day, who's time doesn't cross my mind as a top priority when in dealing with my life. Okay groom.Y
Venti joined AGMA
Whatever gets me in the room.
I was told to do that from a few people.
Come March, I'm in the room where it happens while EMCs and NON EQs will be watching from the sidelines.
Thanks for the fun replies y'all!
I feel all of the insight, and it's nothing newer than conversations I've had with Equity actors in person as well. There is no seething hatred for the Union - quite the opposite, I'd love to join, I'm workin on it!
However it's also tough for this cold shoulder approach like "you're a coutesy". In that exact same breath, I wanna say I COMPLETELY agree and understand! We ARE being seen as a courtesy.
but it's a bit of a catch 22 when you are trying to break into a union by auditioning for theatres that only want to see union people.
Anyway, its just tough, you know? I guess i just feel its important to remember the little guy. I have no problem waiting 7 hours. But just gimme a chance. but that might be a different thread.
They only want to see Union people because they are an equity theatre under a legally binding contract to hire equity actors.
I know it comes across as harsh- I do, but at an EPA the last thing on anyone's mind is 'the little guy'. No monitor is trying to squeeze in the non-eqs and I'd be pissed if they did.
So some people aren't perfect union members? So what? Two minutes is hardly a hard and fast rule and if I want to go in there and paint my fingernails for two minutes that's my right. You may not think it fair or professional- but then again, you aren't paying for it.
As far as people being douchebags- that's just people. I guarentee it has nothing to do with you and even less to do with your Union status. Sometimes people are just jerks.
anyone have the sheet music 4 mambo #5?
This. A. Gain.
Look, non-Eqs. It's this simple - no one is holding a gun to your head to go to Equity auditions. It's your choice. If you want to wait around to maybe be seen, no one is stopping you. And honestly, I hope you do get seen! I do! Your success is my success and I genuinely mean that.
But please, PLEASE quit with this particular bitch. Enough.
And as a side note: The actual Equity rule is: "Six performers will be scheduled in 20-minute blocks of time. The length of each performer's audition will be at the discretion of the casting director, with a minimum of one minute given to each performer. Any time left over within the 20-minute block will be assigned to alternates”
Why are you paying so much attention to what others are doing? I have been in the room before and been asked for a second piece or even given sides. Take your headphones. Read a play. Memorize a monologue. Bring a headshot and resume, write a cover letter and mail it to the theatre you want to be seen for. Any of these activities is productive. Worrying about what others are doing is not. But really. Headphones.
Maybe don't wear headphones, cause you'll probably miss your name being called just like these equity members did.
Actually an equity theater can hire a non union member(usually seen at an EPA) and make them a union member. Especially in the city where there is no EMC program and a company has to sign an actor to an equity contract directly and give them the option to join or to leave at the end of the contract.
posting this one last time! As I'm moving!
But anyone want to take over :)
I didn't personally pass "wind" anywhere unusual this week...but someone on the train did this morning and woof.... 😝
I survived a busier week than I'm normally used to.
I've also been taking a 5 week long class and this past week I felt like I did pretty damn well in it, it's the smal things for me lately :)
Kinda weird question that I know is personal and different for everyone but I'm interested in hearing thoughts- it is possible to enter college as a mover and leave a decent dancer?
I'm definitely a mover right no. I understand movement and dance, and once I learn choreography I can nail it pretty well, but I just don't have the years of technique like some of my peers. I know of some males who entered college with no dance training and left as strong dancers. Is it possible for a girl like me to catch up in only four years to be a competitive dancer at auditions? In addition, at my program ballet isn't in the curriculum for every semester so I'm planning on taking classes outside of school.
Absolutely! I have quite a few friends who entered school either with no experience or as a strong mover and left with great technique. They worked their asses off all four years though, to get there. If you're already concerned about a lack of ballet and are looking for somewhere else to take classes then you're already smart about what you need and have the drive to get it! I'll always recommend the Zena Rommett floor barre technique to find your alignment (if you aren't in NY and can't take classes at BDC or Steps before you head off to school they have instructional DVDs), stretch and condition your life away (safely) every day, and get as much ballet and jazz as you can!
Thank you for the insight!
It is definitely possible! That being said, men are actually physically built for dance more so than women, which is why you see so many guys never dancing til college and coming out looking like professional ballet dancers. It's super not fair haha.
But if you work hard enough it is absolutely possible to be a good enough dancer to attend dance calls post college. Place a lot of focus on the basics. Turnout, extension, pointing your feet, correct passé placement, etc. These are all things that have been engrained in dancers from a young age and they are instinctual. You never want to be dancing and reminding yourself to point your feet. It should be second nature. Just train train train and don't take advantage of a minute of college. Best of luck!
Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Will you achieve the technical proficiency of a dancer trained consistently from the age of 3? Most likely, no. But keep in mind that most dancers who start that age don't ACTUALLY become serious until they're a little older (depending on your studio). If you invest the time and hard work it will take (and believe me, if you want to leave a DANCER, it will be HARD WORK) you can absolutely do it. I've seen it done before!
Thank you thank you!! Much appreciated.
I'm really interested in the Broadway Donation dance classes but am worried they're too advanced for me- any experience with them?
I go to Broadway Donation a lot and I will say, it's definitely more of an intermediate level class. That being said, it's advertised that it has an open/all levels feeling so if you wanna brave it, it's a great way to meet lots of different choreographers and see many different teaching styles!
Got a phonecalls from this company a couple of days ago about an upcoming audition for them. My Spidey senses are tingling, but I want to see if anyone has any experience with them before i cancel the appointment.
*I meant live, not livs
There's been a few threads on this. I got a call for this and went in a while back. Not legit. One of the weirdest auditions of my life.
Anyone hear anything after the Sing-in night last night?
Your basic bitch fact of the day: the pseudo-Starbucks at AEA has pumpkin lattes all year round!!!!
You just made my whole life.
That doesn't surprise me- their iced americano is among the best in NYC!
What do we think about this? Pros and cons? I'm so confused. Their projects are literally so many worlds apart, I'm not sure what this transition will be like. Thoughts?
Also, ACQUIRED. My bad.
The two offices are merging?
I'm stunned www.playbill.com
I can't stop thinking about this. I feel like if anything in casting you typically leave to create your own company and be your own boss rather than merge. I doubt that Binder was having hard enough times to need to be acquired to stay afloat. Why after 35ish years of running your own, successful company would you want to have a boss again?
Also like, damn, RWS has more bank than I thought.
Last thought of my thought vomit, I wonder if this influenced Jason's decision to leave and really just freelance a couple of months ago.
None of this is any of my business (literally) but it just seems totally out of left field to me!
Woah, I just saw this on his (Ryan's) profile. Interesting. Im not sure how I feel about it, at the moment I'm neither here nor there.
I honestly don't find myself caring that much, maybe I should since I used to work for them? I mean, Ryan and Jay can do whatever the heck they want, I guess, but since I was never planning on returning to RWS anyway unless it was for the right thing, even now I'd rather not, it guess since it won't affect me in any way I don't care either way. But I do know it will affect many others who do wish to work for them. Interesting indeed.
Ah forgot this. I see this as no different than how the good ol' Gardens of Busch decided to have Bob cast for them. Seems like Ryan is doing the same with Jay. Each are using these offices as their CD's. Unless I'm reading this completely wrong...correct me if I am.
Maybe Jay needed the money cuz he's a terror and not a lot of people in the biz really feel like working with him?...
^said nobody ever
I mean I'm not THAT surprised that someone else would acquire the office. Jay is old AF and no one has been there long enough to straight up take over. I'm just surprised Jay was even interested in RWS...that being said, they've been on the up and coming as of late, with taking over Holland America and probably making a pretty penny doing so. Jay probably just needed someone to cover the finances, and RWS is probably seeking a little more credibility in the book show department.
dressed in pyjamas -- what are you talking about? Jay Binder is one of the nicest guys in showbiz. I've literally heard from no one ever that he is a "terror." Fatniss is prob closer to the truth. They are losing business to Telsey and Rubin and need someone to cover their finances.....
Wait.... Binder is still casting projects? I had no idea he was still around. Besides sometimes doing Encores, he hasnt done a big project in a while. He's cray cray. Meh
Hey mimi - gents guide, lion king, Danes at sea, white Xmas, Hartford stage, houston tuts
...he did Gentleman's guide and still does Lion King.
Y'all need to do your research before you try shooting that shade *sips tea*
fuzzletwit beat me to it.
Wait, he does Lion King?? I could have SWORN that was Rubin especilyl with that open call tour for both Aladdin and LK last fall...Welp, I'm obviously wrong. But it kinda makes me giggle that, now each Disney show is being cast by a different office, I'm pretty sure it didn't used to be that way.
Anyways, totally off subject, I've only auditioned for Jay once, and I didn't get the vibe he was unkind, just very old and very tired, and...a bit strange.
Hahahah I know exactly what you mean showbiz. I remember last year going to the White Christmas EPA and he just looked so tired
Be nice ya'll. He's a nice man. You never know what prompted the transaction.
I've never heard a single negative thing about Jay. He's getting up there in years and doesn't handle quite as many accounts now but he's a DOLL and not to mention a LEGEND. I'm also biased because he gave me my card, but if you feel like shit talking some casting directors, he's one of the worst places to start.
I'm happy to hear a lot of positivity about him...I'm just speaking from my experience of having a couple really terrible encounters with him during auditions, but maybe I just caught him on some bad days.
Not to open another can of worms, but- isn't RWS a non-eq company and almost if not all projects Jay has cast in the past Equity (including his new venture In Transit)? How is this going to work?!
Sounds like they'll have both equity and non equity clients. Just like many other casting directors do.
RWS became Equity a few years ago. They hire both and some jobs offer you your card I believe (i worked for them wwaaayyyy before they became equity) but it's either or, they don't dish out points, that I do know.
"How is this going to work?!"
Now they just hire some union actors.
Jay is my favorite. Love that man. He cast me once from an open call, and now calls me in for stuff whenever he possibly can.
Also, to chime in about the union/non-union stuff. He cast the non-union second national tour of Sister Act. He's spreading the love around...omg sorry, I couldn't help it.
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